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Epoc Digest Tue, 15 Apr 2003 Volume 01 : Number 229

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Sent to: 778 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 17 messages:

==============================

- Re: EpocSync, to Keith

- RE: Networking a NetBook to Philip Crookes

- netBook headphone jack

- Washer

- 9210, bigotry, 9210 again

- re:re: Mobipocket

- Criminal law

- Multiple Psion Devices

- Censorship

- New 5mx and Revo??

- Copying to D,Previous digests,

- Re: netBook Installation Problem

- Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 228

- Re: C700

- Re: Legalities

- Headphone jack on netBook

- Re: Censorship

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 10:08:22 +0100

From: "Edgar Brazda MD, PhD"

Subject: Re: EpocSync, to Keith

> Now I have another problem. Before the "flashing" problem I had > EpocSync working on the netBook. Now I'm unable to install it. I > keep getting a message - A problem occurred while copying

D:\System\Apps\Epocsync\Epocsync.aif.

Hello Keith,

it is just a suspicion, but have not you "updated" your .aif. with Martin's great new icons? This is the very file, and perhaps its re-install causes this strange behaviour. You have to install it with the original BW icon, and then to change for the color one.

Edgar, Budapest

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 10:26:27 +0100

From: "Edgar Brazda MD, PhD"

Subject: RE: Networking a NetBook to Philip Crookes

> The netBook is running the latest version of the German OS, and has > an Avaya Gold wireless networking card. NetStatRF reports that it > is 'connected to ESS' and reads of the MAC address at the access > point. But it won't access the network or do anything useful.

> > A Sony VAIO laptop connects to the same wireless network without any > problem.

> Philip

Hi Philip,

"Never give up, never surrender"

If you can make the ESS connection, than my long letter was not a total failure :-)

Then you have to check only one more thing: the Internet setup on your nB. Have you set up a new Internet setting for the Ayala card at all?

I do not go into the details right now, perhaps you have decided to give up, but if you have some more courage, send me an e-mail, and we can discuss it step-by-step privately.

Edgar, Budapest

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 17:22:43 +0100

From: Trygve Henriksen

Subject: netBook headphone jack

Greetings!

Mark Wills wrote:

> The question is if you look on the right hand side of a netbook or

> S7 there is a blanking plate which may have been for a modem

> connection that was not implemented. So could a headphone jack

> be installed here and wired across the inbuit speaker?? If so how

> do you get inside a netbook? anyone taken one apart? anyone

> done this ?

I'm sending you the step-by-step guide directly...

(It's long.... but not difficult)

As to whether or not it's possible to mount a socket in the spacy you want to, I have no idea...

:-)

Trygve

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 21:46:00 +0100

From: ALYG

(Andrew Longdon)

Subject: Washer

Not much info on the net, but a new one would cost inxs of £400!

,\ndy

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 22:14:44 +0100

From: Kevin Thorne

Subject: 9210, bigotry, 9210 again

Reply to Will Green:

Subject: 9210

<I've recently swapped mobile provider and acquired a Nokia 9210 for free with my new talk excessively account. I have to say it seems a bit dodgy! It was never meant it as a 5mx/netBook replacement, but I thought I could do something with it. My problems are:

Keeps crashing with out of memory errors.

CPU doesn't seem to be able to handle medium size email (digest amongst them).

'Profiles' (and this is the most annoying) keep changing back to a default 'very quiet ring' setting, even after one call without a reset.>

Will, you don't say which firmware version you are using but the early 9210s were rather flaky (pre v3.62 I think). Mine is v3.64 (one of the last before they upgraded to the 16Mb flash ROM "i" model (I think). I can't help you on Profiles but the out of memory messages are a common occurrence due to Nokia being rather tight fisted with the RAM! The later software versions are better - still only 8Mb of execution memory for running programs but apparently it's handled more efficiently than on the early models. As for handling larger emails, I find this a major annoyance as I too have exactly the same trouble and I love to read this digest on it when I'm on the road with my 9210. What you need to do is just open the large email and leave your machine for a minute or so. Not ideal but you'll find it probably hasn't actually crashed, more likely it's just the CPU taking ages to render a large email ready to read. I've noticed this "freezing" seems to occur when emails get above around 25kb (but attachments are fine at any size).

Reply to Itamar Engelsman:

Subject: Bigotry in the digest

<Re. Bigotry in the digest - Dear Friends, just a few weeks ago I was "told off" for starting a non-EPOC discussion and agreed that was correct. Lately we have unfortunately seen a discussion develop under this heading with rather unfriendly messages being written.>

Not only are they rather unfriendly but also I find them very tedious. The digest seems to be going the same way as many others on the Net - bickering, insults, exchanges of views that have got nothing whatsoever to do with EPOC related matters etc. I used to look forward to a digest full of useful information for using my Psions and 9210 but now it appears to be filling up with non EPOC related arguments. Oh, and I'd just like to say thanks to Rolf Brunsting for his very informative personal review on the P800 - MUCH more interesting than these incessant arguments polluting the digest and I'm already looking forward to his next instalment on use of email on the device.

Reply to Ashley:

Subject: 9210:

Yes, let's hear from other 9210 users. Although it's a bit of a "brick" and not as functional as my old 5mx, I'm slowly learning to love it. For convenience, it's even better than my already very portable previous set up combination of 8210/5mx. I'm still hoping we'll see a new, improved version in the same style (keyboarded clamshell) but with increased RAM, Bluetooth, decent printer drivers, GPRS and a more streamlined figure with less weight. It's not really a replacement for a 5mx but as I've said many times before, that lovely colour screen almost makes up for its other shortcomings!

Regards,

Kevin Thorne

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Apr 2003 23:12:25 +0100

From: Jaan Sass

Subject: re:re: Mobipocket

Date: 25 Mar 2003 12:07:42 +0000

From: "Steve Hodgson"

Subject: re: Mobipocket

Mobipocket is not a database program like Tomeraider. It is more akin to Palm reader, or microsoft's reader program. Usually reference material is highlighted and linked. books can be setup this way to make it is as efficient as tomeraider. I personally do not like tomeraider. Also the dictionaries and references work have a search engine to look up words etc.

> How does Mobipocket compare to TomeRaider in price, usability,

> compactness of files and available selection of files?

One of the main drawbacks of Mobipocket from my point of view is all

the damned hidden files it leaves behind. I prefer to be the only one

able to clutter my machine with dross of my own choosing.

Having said that the interface is good and somehow seems to have

clearer fonts than other applications. I do belive that there is a

natural split between reference material and etexts. TomeRaider does

reference material brilliantly but proper books never seem to work as

well. E-book readers always seem to be poor choice for reference

material.

Having said that I've never tried Mobipocket with reference material so

it could prove me wrong.

Cheers,

Steve

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 05:50:47 +0100

From: "Gary Y Reyes"

Subject: Criminal law

>Date: 9 Apr 2003 21:15:44 +0100

>From: Rolf Brunsting >Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 224

>Well ... can a person post a message on Usenet or some other on-line = >discussion forum mentioning the URL of child pornography web site or the = >e-mail address of a person who sells such material? Is Google completely = >innocent when its search engine gives the URLs to child pornography web = >sites its automatic web crawlers have collected?

>Kind Regards,

>Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

Good point, Rolf. And to complicate matters a little bit more, how about unfounded rumors that destroy a person's reputation that are spread through SMS via the mobile phone? It is so easy these days to use the Internet and the mobile phone and other communication means that sometimes the boundary between "illegal" or 'improper" use gets all blurred up.

We all need to be more careful with how we use these tools that have been given to us.

Gary

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 06:09:41 +0100

From: "Gary Y Reyes"

Subject: Multiple Psion Devices

>Date: 10 Apr 2003 21:35:24 +0100

>From: Rolf Brunsting >Subject: Re: Why a 5mx or Revo?

>It's easier to carry a Revo than a Series 5mx and easier to carry a 5mx = >than a Series 7. I've got all three, plus a Series 5 plus an Ericsson = >MC218,

>The Revo's job is currently being taken over by a SonyEricsson P800 = >Kind Regards,

>Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

Rolf,

Just out of curiosity (because I have always owned only 1 Psion at a time), do you keep all these divices synchronized? If so, how do you do it?

Gary

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 09:07:19 +0100

From: Philip S. Adkins Potter

Subject: Censorship

Hi all,

1. This is not in any way a criticism.

The Digest crew have voluntarily done a fine job, often thankless. I, among many, am very grateful to them all for their efforts.

2. But it is a disagreement.

Several of us, myself included, have made mistaken posts. But I disagree fundamentally with censorship of any description.

Many may think that censorship of this Digest is desirable and so acceptable - and I understand. The Digest team are extremely honest, putting "CENSORED" rather than some mealy-mouthed euphemism. They don't like censorship, that is obvious, and it must have cost them much debate and soul-searching to agree on limited censorship of this Digest.

As I said, understandable.

But I disagree with censorship whenever and wherever met. It means someone else is deciding what I should read even if I disagree with them (I think this bothers the Digest team a lot). But I am adult enough to decide for myself and I have been for forty-odd years. I think all Digestives are.

But there is the problem of OT posts, this I know. Perhaps the team could remind OT posters *in* the Digest about this if the discussion continues. I think we would all heed any such reminder. I know I would. Equally perhaps this shouldn't be a burden on the team, perhaps we ourselves should tell people that they should stay on-topic.

But I think the worst way of dealing with bigots is to give them credence by censoring them.

3. But this is not in any way a criticism.

Not only have the Digest team done a fine job, they work hard to keep this Digest both interesting and entertaining. Disagreement abounds and I would hate it if everyone agreed. Airing such disagreements is one of the purposes of this Digest.

Good luck,

Phil.

"Time wounds all heels."

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 12:26:16 +0100

From: "Philip Carlisle"

Subject: New 5mx and Revo??

In Madrid, on the east side of the Calle Serrano about 2 or 3 blocks north of the Museum of Architecture, there is a branch of El Corte Ingles which sells books, artist's materials, stationery and electronic goods. My wife tells me that on Sat 12 May, the latter section (on the first floor up) had on display both the 5mx and Revo (or Revo Plus) for sale. She did not check out the prices, but she said that there was no sign of any special sale going on. It just appeared to be routine availability.

It might be interesting if we have any colleagues in Spain who could follow this up?

Kind regards

Philip Carlisle

London

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 13:33:31 +0100

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Copying to D,Previous digests,

Answer to: Thomas Edison

Re.: Copying to D - Careful, it might mean that your mains connection does not function properly, because it should work once connected.

Answer to: Richard

RE. Previous digests - As per the bottom part of each digest, look at http://www.psioneering.co.uk/digest.html for all old digests.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 15:44:21 +0100

From: Keith Giles

Subject: Re: netBook Installation Problem

I solved my problem. I've always installed via the PC. After many tries, I finally thought about copying the sis file to the netBook's D drive then using the Add/Remove function. It worked.

Happy Cycling,

Keith

Sunnyvale, CA

http://home.attbi.com/~ohsix827/

Thought For The Day: A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.

All my outgoing e-mails have been checked by Norton Anti-virus.

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 21:16:17 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 228

Dear Itamar,

i888 settings

<< Could someone please inform me with the settings to use Compuserve on a 5MX with an i888 in the USA? >>

The modem definition is:

Modem tab

- Name : Ericsson I888

- Speed : 57600

- Connect : Infrared

- Fax Class : Auto

Initialisation tab

- Init (reset) : ATZ

- Data : (blank)

- Fax : (blank)

Handshaking tab

- Flow : Hardware (RTS/CTS)

- Terminal (DSR/DTR) : Unchecked

- Carrier (DCD) : Unchecked

- Type : Mobile

The important Internet settings are:

1) Change "Port settings" to _8 data bits, no parity_

2) Replace the standard Psion script for CompuServe by this one...

start:

LOOP 3

{

SEND <0x0d>

WAIT 4

{

":" CIS

}

EXIT KErrTimeOut$

CIS:

SEND "+CIS"+<0x0d>

WAIT 10

{

":" login

}

EXIT KErrTimeOut$

SEND login_name$+"+/go:pppconnect"+<0x0d>

WAIT 10

{

"word:" password

}

EXIT KErrTimeOut$

password:

SEND login_pass$+<0x0d>

EXIT

failure:

EXIT KErrLoginFail$

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 21:16:24 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: C700

Dear Koi Hin,

<< At what point should a laptop be considered small enough to be considered a Revo successor? >>

That's for the individual to decide. People tend to buy a handheld computer or a laptop for a mixture of reasons. A change in requirements can mean that the mixture changes as well, and that the Revo is replaced by a laptop, albeit a small form factor laptop.

<< I beg to differ, the operating environment of our PDAs/Handheld PCs is an important factor ... Also, what is wrong is making comparison between OSes and finding one is better in respect to one's requirements? >>

I'm not going to repeat the sentence you wrote again as you apparently don't see the message you're sending out. While the string of derogatory comments in the same message the sentence came from can't be described as a 'comparison'.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 21:16:25 +0100

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Legalities

Dear Rick,

<< Anything is public information when published on a website >>

This is certainly not true. There are two legal and political models in Europe - the 'Rhineland' model and the 'Anglo-American' model. The response above, and the others in your message, indicate that you're thinking along the lines of the Anglo-American model while forgetting that it's sphere of application is a limited one. Your quick dismissal of the decision of the French courts regarding AOL doesn't change the situation that French law has a different basis and that a French court can come to different conclusions than an English court. The same applies to the responsibilities a search engine like Google has.

<< I would like to point out that "frog" used to refer to a French person by an English person is not an insult, more a nickname inspired by one of our differences >>

The term 'Frog' was an insult that has become institutionalised to the extent that the English now treat it as a nickname. Which is fine when it's used in a discussion between English people. Use the term 'Frog' in a discussion with French people and you have to reckon that they still see it as an insult.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Apr 2003 22:46:09 +0100

From: Kevin Thorne

Subject: Headphone jack on netBook

Mark Wills wrote:

I've often wondered if this blank plate could be put to good use. If we ever see the "netBook 2" then perhaps it would be used for a built-in connector of some sort. In the meantime though, I for one would love to be able to use my S7 for listening to mp3s privately (and with a better quality than offered by the rather tinny speaker). Ideally, I'd like to be able to do this with the S7 in the closed position too, like a very large Walkman!

Regards

Kevin Thorne

*++++++++++&

Date: 15 Apr 2003 03:25:00 +0100

From: Michael Degn

Subject: Re: Censorship

Answer to Philip S. Adkins Potter

Dear Philip,

Believe me, it was a VERY difficult and hard decision to censure EPOC Digest V1 # 228. As you say, no one in the Digest Team are happy to enforce any kind of censorship. We do like freedom and speech of freedom, and appreciate it just as much as you and probably any one else on the Digest. However, we found it necessary to enforce the policy to stop the debate getting totally out of control. All our efforts to stop it by asking nicely was in vain so far.

As I see it, it was an impossible situation. No matter what we've decided people would disagree with us. If we would do nothing, then this Digest would end up in chaos and anarchy, and people could insult each other endlessly. A truly horrible thought. I'm sure many people would blame us for that. On the other hand, as we decided to intervene we also knew that people would disagree too. It really sucks.

Well, the world isn't perfect and nor are we. We simply did what we thought was supposed to be in the best interest for this community. It's not any different from many other communities. We have a few basic, but reasonable rules. If you comply to them all is fine - if you don't, you'll have to face the consequences.

I don't pretend this is a court and we are to judge and execute. I really wish I will never have to censure any postings ever again (today 1 didn't make into the Digest and I just hate it), because if I have to, I don't know what to do. I don't want to be part of a community where censorship is necessary to maintain some bearable manners. Also I don't want to be in the same community when anybody can do whatever (s)he wants, where racism and insults reigns and nobody does anything about it. You see, either way I loose. The Digest should be a peaceful place and people should be nice and polite to each other - then it would be a real pleasure.

So the big question remain - do we allow limited censorship as a last resort to prevent repeated violations of the rules, or do we vote for no censorship at all, meaning potential troublemakers may pollute this otherwise cosy Digest? - not easy to answer, right?

TO ALL: No one is being accused for being a troublemaker or breaking any rules. Censured posts so far have not been inappropriate as such, but have been replies to earlier postings and was only censured to enforce a stop to a certain issue.