Epocdigest V1 # 324

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Epoc Digest Sat, 23 Aug 2003 Volume 01 : Number 324

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Sent to: 809 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 18 messages:

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- re: opera save

- Re: New Apacer card speeds up complete Mbook

- orange wap?

- PayPal & Corrupt Files on D

- Psion Replacement

- Emptied batteries of the Netbook - part 2

- Re: Psion & T610

- Re: IR Print Problems

- Re: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook

- Re: Future of PDA's

- Re: Word

- Re: Various Rolf B posts

- Symbian Word format and RTF conversion macro

- Contents of digests, netBook pro, CURIOUS FAILURE, Sony Ericsson P800,

- Psion companion?, T610 & GPRS, Sony Ericsson P800 , Pibeam & cBeam, broadband?,

- Meeting on the 26th Sept

- Curious failure

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 11:32:16 +0000

From: Gianluca Gallino

Subject: re: opera save

Trygve wrote:

>Subject: Opera save,

>The simplest way is to just let Opera downlaod the file (and fail to >open it in the PDF reader...) then WITHOUT closing down Opera, >change to the system screen and browse to >C:\System\apps\Opera\cache and look for what you can find of >files with the correct ending you want, and copy them to where >you want to keep it. (Opera renames the files but keeps the >endings)

Thank you Trygve for your tip. I had just found out the cache thing a few days ago. Anyway I thought I was the only one who could not open right away a PDF file from internet while now it seems to me that this is actually a common bug of Opera which can be solved by doing as you mentioned.

BTW, is there any other turnaround to solve this problem or it is just something we have to deal with?

cheers

Gianluca

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 13:34:52 +0000

From: Astrid Stappenbeck

Subject: Re: New Apacer card speeds up complete Mbook

Thomas F. Van der Zijden wrote:

> A-Tembo in Delft, The Netherlands now sells Apacer

> 128Mo CF cards for 25 euros. I'd rather like a

> bigger one ...

Hi Thomas,

be creful, should you buy a larger Apacer you might have trouble running it. I know of three people (including myself) who found it incompatible with Psion. It might be that the problem only appears with a certain part of the production or with some Psions but try out thoroughly before you buy or make sure you can return the card!

Astrid

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Date: 21 Aug 2003 15:03:48 +0000

From: robertsont

Subject: orange wap?

Does anyone know if it possible to set up a psion machine to make use of wap on an orange mobile phone (8310). Orange are currently offering a wap bundle and i though this might make a saving on dial up calls from a mobile as i believe you only pay for the bytes used!

regards,

tom

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Date: 21 Aug 2003 18:05:16 +0000

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: PayPal & Corrupt Files on D

I finally overcame my inherent unease about "strange" money processes and set up a PayPal account to subscribe to the new journal. Entrance into the modern age is soooo difficult. Looking forward to my first issue. I also joined the association (league, ?) which I guess entitles me to join in on raucous meetings in London, if I ever cross the Blue.

I've refrained from commenting on corrupt files on D as there are so many who are really knowledgeable who are rising to this question.

I've found that the things that lead to corrupt files for me have been:

1. Formatting in one mode (say the 5mx, or using that program that I used to have that saves space while formatting) and then using the card in a different until (say 5ive to access my backup files while my 5mx is in for repairs)

2. Low main batteries.

I make it a rule to use the Psion utility on my 5mx to format my flash.

I make it a rule to copy the data file down onto the C drive before writing to the file then saving it - them copy it back onto the D drive.

I use files on the D drive only if I can afford to lose them.

I used to have a corrupt file (usually "cross-machine") about one a month.

Since adapting these "rules" (over 2 years now) I have yet to corrupt a file.

jim - marginal luddite in port townsend, washington

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 18:05:23 +0000

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Psion Replacement

Koihin, Peter & Koi

<<If you only use dates, alarms and jotter on Revo, PalmOS is a good choice.>>

I carry my Treo 90 (with acceptable thumb-board) around in my shirt pocket for agenda, alarms, phone numbers and addresses, writing the occasional poem, and reading Stoker's Dracula - (much better screen for reading novels than the 5mx or Mako). I also carry my Psion (5mx or sometimes Mako) for Data,

spreadsheets and for access to the massive information in files accumulated over the years.

<< If you do big-time wordprocessing & spreadsheets, the Sharp is a better choice. I'd wait for the multi-tasking PalmOS 6 to come out later this year before making a decision.>>

I find for big-time wordprocessing (being a wannabe novelist, a poet, and an editor of two small press magazines, I qualify as a big-time word-processor),

I can't beat the Dana. It is better than the 5mx for heavy duty WP.

With WordSmith IMO the day is coming that someone is going to bring out a clamshell 5mx-like unit with Psion quality keyboard running Palm OS and it

will be the awaited giant-killer.

<<I'd wait for the multi-tasking PalmOS 6 to come out later this

year>>

Unfortunately, this will not run on the Dana (so says tech support at AlphaSmart) because of hardware differences. I do admit I mis multi-tasking, but the horsepower of the unit as a WP machine outweighs (for me) the limitations of the Palm OS.

I spent 3 hours yeterday playing with QuickSheet on the Dana. Sheet it isn't, but I was able to make it work well enough to meet my needs (set up and got working a check register for the month of August in the same format I use in Sheet).

<<It is unfortunaly I wont be able to try out the Zaurus, but I will be looking around in case someone has it.>>

I tried the Zaurus out in the store (the one with a thumb-board) and found the thumb-board wanting - the Treo thumb board is much better and is what sold me enough to try it out (that and the fact that it was on special for less than $150 <g>).

jim - carrying around 3 machines in port townsend, washington (the Dana in a back-pack)

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 18:23:50 +0000

From: Thomas F. Van der Zijden

Subject: Emptied batteries of the Netbook - part 2

Hi group,

Guess what? My Malaybook is safe and sound in its PalmTec case, but now my *real* laptop (a Compaq) suddenly emptied its batteries!

Now I really do not get what is happening here!

Yours truly,

Thomas van der Zijden

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:42:32 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Psion & T610

Dear Jan,

<< Has anyone tried to send Tasks from a 5mx or a MC218 to an S-E T610 (or a E T68i for that matter) and managed to receive it correctly or does the same problem occur then? >>

I've sent a number of test tasks from my Series 5mx, MC218 and Series 7 to my SonyEricsson P800 and everything works fine. The subject title of the task remains the subject title on the P800 and isn't placed in the notes section.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:42:40 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: IR Print Problems

Dear Andy,

<< I thought that I had discovered the solution to the printing problem that I have been having, netBook --> Psion IR eye --> HP1300 laser ... Still no joy ... >>

The question I have is whether the HP1300 is equivalent to the old LaserJet III, IV and V models. These had the rasterising engine on-board so that you sent them a PCL data stream and the LaserJets laid out the page, rasterised it and printed it. Later models, specially the entry level ones, didn't have a lay-out and rasterising engine, they relied on the PC to do the job. When your HP1300 is one of these you won't be able to use it in combination with a Psion as the Psion drivers produce a PCL data stream.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:42:47 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: The use of Ethernet on the Netbook

Dear Koi Hin,

<< I am surprise to hear you use the word "hate", what did the term WiFi ever do to you? >>

Note that the word 'Hate' is also used in the sense of 'A strong dislike'. The reason is that the name WiFi is very close to HiFi which relates to the accurate reproduction of recorded music. Now, if there's one thing you expect from wireless ethernet it's the faithful transmission of data. The WiFi name therefore indicates the equivalent of "Our water is wet". Whatever the idea behind WiFi, it's the associations it triggers in people's mind that make it laughable nonsense.

German car maker Opel made a similar mistake by naming one of it's small cars Nova. Which wasn't such a 'bright star' of an idea because "No va" in Spanish means "Doesn't move" or "Doesn't go".

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:42:54 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Future of PDA's

Dear Itamar,

<< I wonder what these machines with wireless connection, GPRS, etc. are worth to me without a decent keyboard to work on >>

Your question isn't really about wireless connectivity. It's about how you work with the data that's on the device, not about the way you get data in and out of the device. It's the old Palm V versus Psion Series 5 question of which to buy. The only valid answer is another question : What are you going to use it for?

<< I think that if someone will bring out the functionality of a windows type machine (can just as well be Apple or Linux) that can run heavy programs like imaging editing, presentations, etc. with a crystal clear screen in the size of a netBook/S7 at a competitive price (in comparison to the notebooks) a lot of money could be made >>

Pay a visit to Tottenham Court Road and it's many computer and electronics shops. I think you'll find that such devices already exist. Go to Micro Anvika, for example, and have a look at the new 12" Apple Powerbook. Trouble is that you'll have to pay laptop prices for them as that's what they are - laptops in a smaller form factor. As they share a lot of components with laptops it's not to be expected that they undercut laptops on price.

<< I sitll think the average "mass-user" of PDA's use it as a diary / contacts / short notes machine and don't care about all the connectivity >>

The mass-market is already using wireless connectivity in the form of SMS message exchange, picture messaging and MMS plus WAP browsing. Your SonyEricsson T610 isn't the only mobile phone to be equipped with an E-mail client. The simple phone number list of mobile phones has grown into a contacts application, allowing you to store home and business addresses as well as phone (and fax) numbers. Mobile phones have been equipped with relatively simple diaries for some time already. In other words, mobile phones are moving into PDA territory. Think of the mass-market Nokia 3650. The reverse, PDAs moving into mobile phone territory, is also taking place. Palm's Tungsten W is effectively an M515 with a mobile phone built in. A number of people buy a Tungsten W, Treo 270 or SonyEricsson P800 because they no longer have to carry two devices and to worry about keeping PDA and phonebook in synch.

Once you have PDA and mobile phone in one device it lowers the barrier to using it for wireless connectivity. It's a small step from using SMS on a mobile phone to E-mail on a smartphone. Just as it becomes a small step from WAP browsing to web browsing. I'm not going to say that people will be using a smartphone for all their E-mail or for all their web browsing. The old 'horses for courses' maxim still applies. The small screen of a smartphone isn't ideally suited for viewing a Powerpoint presentation you've received by E-mail. Wirelessly connected devices like smartphones will be complementary. To illustrate this, think about the situation in which you're on a crowded, standing room only, commuter train travelling back from work. You suddenly remember that you haven't sent Bob the e-mail you promised. The train's too packed to use your laptop of Series 7 (Could you, please, bend over, Sir so that I can use your back as a table). What you do is to take out out your smartphone, compose the message and send it out.

Smartphones will also create new forms of usage. Youngsters are very good at developing such new forms. Think of the way they've embraced SMS. A Friday night out during my student days was always preceded by a series of telephone calls to find out who was going out as well, to agree on where we'd meet and at what time. Youngsters simply go into town nowadays and coordinate their movements with those of their friends using SMS. There's no preconceived plan, everything's arranged on an ad-hoc basis. The place to meet is 'negotiated' by SMS while they're on their way into town. When one of the group has popped into a pub, to find there's a very good band playing there, the SMS messages go out and the others appear at the pub in no time. When smartphones become affordable for youngsters you can be sure that they are going to use them in ways you and I wouldn't have thought about.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:43:14 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Word

Dear Ian,

<< One thing that was taken out of Word was the ability to save a Word file as RTF, which was a huge mistake in my opinion >>

George made a very good point when he mentioned that Word has hardly changed since the Series 3 models and the MC400. Which doesn't mean that Word hasn't changed at all - it has. The most striking change has been object embedding as it allows you to create a broader range of documents. What we haven't seen, however, is a series of progressive steps in the sense of Word evolving with each new Psion model.

<< In one Digest you said that, out of respect for manufacturers, you preferred to use full names, but on the other hand, you refer to WiFi as a nonsense term ... >>

See also my message to Koi Hin. That a manufacturer has to chosen a particular name doesn't imply that people are immediately fond of the name and think it's a well chosen one.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:43:22 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Various Rolf B posts

Dear Chris,

<< It's a pity you are trying to do the job of Psion (assessing the potential market size & associated problems), rather than simply doing what the petition asks you to do - say whether YOU personally wish to use EPOC/SymbianOS on the Netbook Pro >>

I've already answered this question - see my message in Digest no. 315. Still, the petition raises a number of additional questions. One of them is whether a Symbian OS based netBook Pro will have a reasonable chance of success in the marketplace. This may not be important for the petition itself, were it not that the petition is part of a bigger plan. One that includes the scenario of a third-party taking over the marketing and sales of a Symbian OS netBook Pro (and possibly its development) and that Psion Teklogix will do the production. Which requires not only the petition but also a detailed business plan. It's therefore not strange that the market and marketing aspects are discussed here.

<< I think you rather missed his point! He can NOT recharge his Revo at 65 percent, whereas he can with his Series 7.If he has to wait until his Revo reaches 15 percent, which is potentially sometime during the flight, he is rather stuck since the flight has no mains available for charging >>

There's no lock on the Revo's battery charging electronics to prevent you from recharging the batteries at levels higher than 15%. You can recharge it at any level, be it 65%, 40% or 85%. When you want to have your Revo ready for some work during a long haul flight you put it on the cradle and recharge it. Whatever the charge level is at that point in time. That you normally follow a recharge at 15% routine doesn't mean that you have to stick to it at all times, whatever the circumstances.

<< By which I mean: It is all very well saying the programs are quite small, but it is rather silly to think Palm apps can store raw data in any less space than a Psion >>

Which is completely beside the point. It's well known that (third-party) PalmOS developers have kept their applications small in size and their files quite compact. Palm owners happily used the memory their model were equipped with when those of other devices had to start checking the prices of plug-in memory cards. The 8 MByte of AlphaSmart's Dana therefore goes quite a long way. That's what it should be judged on. Not by the simple value judgement of 8 MByte being less than 16 MByte and therefore inferior. Whether the Dana's 8 MByte will be sufficient for what Person X wants to do with it is a different matter.

<< Sorry, but the Palm OS was originally designed as an ultra-basic ultra-low-memory PIM, and unfortunately it seems to carry much of that legacy today >>

You're making the same mistake by judging PalmOS by what it's supplied in and by what it's mainly used for. That PalmOS based devices don't have a word processor and spreadsheet equivalent to Word and Sheet in ROM doesn't mean you can't use PalmOS for these types of application. Palm supplies it's models with the third-party Documents To Go for a number of generations. Install Documents To Go and it allows you to read, modify and write Microsoft Word and Excel files.

<< OTOH, EPOC (and even WinCE) were designed with a much more modern design, and therefore can handle "Desktop PC"-like tasks far easier >>

That's no longer the case. Palm, or rather PalmSource, made a generation change with the introduction of PalmOS 5 that's equivalent to Psion's move from 16-bit EPOC (now called SIBO) to 32-bit EPOC (now called Symbian OS).

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 21 Aug 2003 21:43:33 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Various Rolf B posts

Arent,

<< But the increase in functionality in PalmOS from 4.1.2 and above also comes at the cost of increased CPU and memory resource requirements And this is likely to happen in Symbian OS as well >>

This is, once more, misleading because the PalmOS versions up to 4.x are running on the 16-bit Motorola Dragonball processors while the 5.x versions (and the upcoming version 6) are running on 32-bit ARM based processors (like the Texas Instruments OMAPs). Psion made the move from 16 to 32 bit with the introduction of the Series 5. One in which 16-bit EPOC (now called SIBO) of the Series 3 models, the Siena and the Workabout was replaced by 32-bit EPOC (now called Symbian OS). In other words, Symbian OS has already gone through an evolutionary step Palmsource has gone through with the recent introduction of the PalmOS 5 based Tungsten T.

<< The 6650 from Nokia ( embedded Symbian 6.1 , can only load and run J2ME applications , no native ones ) should work , it is dual-band/dual-mode TDMA ( 900/1800 GSM/GPRS )/ WCDMA with IRDA and Bluetooth >>

You're very much mistaken as the Nokia 6650 runs Nokia's own operating system. Besides, a phone that supports TDMA as well as GSM and WCDMA is a *triple* mode phone, which the 6650 isn't. It's a dual mode phone allright in that it supports GSM (with the HSCSD and GPRS extensions) plus WCDMA.

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Aug 2003 07:24:22 +0000

From: U Hornstein

Subject: Symbian Word format and RTF conversion macro

Reference is made to the mail in the EPOC DIGEST V1 # 321 (6) : martin wrote at 17 Aug 2003 07:11:51 (> ):

> RE: Word (herein referred as 'Symbian Word' to avoid

> confusion with 'MS Word')

...

> By the way: the Symbian Word format *is* the RTF format

> with a wrapper. Basically, the Neuon nConvert for ER5

> makes use of this fact, making the 'conversion' between

> RTF and Symbian Word format extremely fast, they're just

> removing the wrapper.

Martin,

do you or someone else have deeper knowledge of the type of wrapper used? If it is so easy to do, I am thinking of 2 simple macros:

1) called within the symbian Word program:

saves the current file as a symbian word file under filename.rtf (yes, .rtf);

opens filename.rtf in an editor and removes the wrappers; saving the result under the same filename.rtf - now it would really contain a rtf file.

2) does the reverse of 1):

called from system;

user sets the cursor on a M$ filename.rtf file ;

macro opens the rtf file in an editor;

adds the wrapper(s);

saves the result as a Symbian Word file filename (without .rtf).

Anybody going for writing these macros?

With greetings from Germany

Ulrich Hornstein

For spam protection: Please NEVER type my mail address into a www page.

Sent by MC218 (EPOC palmtop)

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:32:32 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Contents of digests, netBook pro, CURIOUS FAILURE, Sony Ericsson P800,

Answer to: Neil Thompson

Re.: Contents of digests - No, I don't think it is all we are interested in, although it is an important factor in our lifes. However, as you know we do not narrate the contents, so if there is interest in other matters, write about it <G>.

Answer to: Gianluca Gallino

RE. netBook pro - You wrote "The more names on the list the higher likelihood that we will see a Symbian OS version of the new netBook Pro as well". I have kept out of this discussion mainly, but I don't think you can prove this statement to be true. You can't prove that they will listen at all, even if you had 1 million signatures. I admire your perseverence, but don't make statements you cannot prove to be correct.

Answer to: Philip Carlisle

Re. CURIOUS FAILURE - It might be that you did not properly close youre nB. If you don't close it completely it will not switch off and continue to discharge the battery, and after 6 hours or so the back-up battery. Something similar happened to me one day, although I caught it within the 6 hours of the battery life.

Answer to: John Morris

Re. Sony Ericsson P800 - I think that as a replacement for another Psion it might work, but in addition to for example an S7 or nB to have another unit that is more pockatable I think it is an overkill you will not need. Such a unit would be only to work as a diary, database for contacts, occasional email and some more for which one of the cheaper palmtops will suffice as well.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Aug 2003 12:32:34 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Psion companion?, T610 & GPRS, Sony Ericsson P800 , Pibeam & cBeam, broadband?,

Answer to: Peter Rand

Re.: Psion companion? - Thanks for your reply. There are of course a varfiety of machines around in different levels of sophystication and prices. What level would suffice for a companion to the Psion's given that we don't need much more than the basic diary and data keeping functions ? Has someone the opinion that a WindowsCE or Pocket2000 machine would be preferable above the Palms ? Which platform (built in or third party) has got the better diary program ?

Message to All & Kevin Collins

Re. T610 & GPRS - I suddenly remembered the great website of Mike (http://www.mikemcc.org.uk) with all the various settings. I took the settings for the T68 and entered these into my T610 and Psion. It worked and now I can use GPRS fully like before. Kevin, after following Mike's instructions I had no problems using GPRS with my S7 anymore, works a treat again. One warning, don't try and see the screen of the phone outside, you won't succeed ! But it is a kute little phone, small, easy to use and fun.

Answer to: Robin Davies-Rollinson

Re. Sony Ericsson P800 - Yes, I also met someone using it and it does look very good. The screen is rather small but probably acceptable. Now, with a keyboard attachment this could be a great machine <G>. However, for a 2nd machine next to the S7 it is rather expensive. I wonder what the successor will add to it and whether not worthwhile to wait for that one.

Message to All

Re. Pibeam & cBeam - Both programs were mentioned in the last digest. What is the difference between them and which one is preferable ?

Answer to: tom

Re. broadband? - I suppose that is the same as ADLS ? Why would you use a modem at all ? Connect your S7 to your PC with the serial link cable and use MochaPPP to use the PC as the modem to connect to your ADSL line. It works perfectly and the speed is utterly amazing. Don't forget to set your smtp to the one of your ADSL service provider.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Aug 2003 14:48:00 +0000

From: Steve Litchfield

Subject: Meeting on the 26th Sept

Big PDA user meeting in London on September 26th! 3-Lib, the UKPUG and various sponsors (below) are proud to announce the next PDA user meeting, in London (near Paddington Station) from 6pm to 9pm on September 26th 2003.

It's all free. Free drinks (for the first hour or so if all goes according to plan), free door prizes, free admission, free drink (for the first

hour) and masses of good chat, gadgets, demonstrations and expertise. Open to all, whether you use a Psion, Palm, Pocket PC or Nokia smartphone.

Full details of the meeting, including a map, are at

http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/meetings.htm

Industry pundit and all-round good egg Ewan Spence will be giving a short (10 min) keynote speech, followed by a Q and A session if there's enough demand.

Sponsors of the meeting so far:

Proporta, Palm, RMR Software, Epocware and Opera. Thanks to each

of them! If your company would like to join the sponsor list (animated banner ads on the meetings page, public thanks on night, etc.), please get in touch!

See you there. Please email me if you plan to attend so that I have a rough idea of numbers.

Steve Litchfi

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Aug 2003 15:11:05 +0000

From: Philip Carlisle

Subject: Curious failure

Thanks to everyone who responded, both here and offline, to my request for ideas after I found my NBook totally flat after a weekend.

I am morally certain that there was no alarm set and that the main battery had not been disconnected. That leaves Thomas's suggestion about vibration (and one ominous suggestion about Government agents). We'll see what this weekend brings!

For those readers about to enjoy what promises to be an unusually sunny/warm bank holiday weekend in the UK - hurrah for global warming!