Epocdigest V1 # 381

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Epoc Digest Sat, 15 Nov 2003 Volume 01 : Number 381

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Sent to: 788 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 11 messages:

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- Re: Sticky silk screen buttons/Series 3

- Re: MSN

- Sony UX50 replies (OT)

- POS, souped-up Revo rumour

- RE: Psiwin 2.3.3 crashes Windows XP Pro when using Psion 5mx

- Re: MSN Messenger

- Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

- Psion freeze problem

- no more freezing?

- Psiwi 2.3.3 Windows XP

- Re: Psion USA

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:22:39 +0100

From: Keith Giles

Subject: Re: Sticky silk screen buttons/Series 3

Itamar wrote:

> There was a macro called "xbarset5mx" that repositioned the programs > on the Extra bar as per your own choice after a hard reset. It was

> written by Kit Byat and tested by our own Keith Giles. There was

> also a version for the S7 but I can't find a website if it still

> exists. Maybe Keith has got it somewhere ?

http://ohsix827.home.comcast.net - it's on the Macros page. Perhaps you meant "after a soft reset". For that, of course, the macro would have to be activated by instructions in something like the Startup tab of AlarmPlus - or run manually via Macro5/Assistant or some other program I know nothing about. After a hard reset the macro would have to be installed, of course. Am I preaching to the choir? :-)

"...our own Keith Giles."? Sounds like something right out of "Keeping Up Appearances", our Itamar. :-)

Trygve Henriksen wrote:

> And compared to a Palm, even recent models, the S3mx beats it hands > down on just about any task except networking. (Surfing/email)

Trygve, I know nothing about the Series 3 as I came to Psion with an S5. The S3mx sounds as though it would be the perfect replacement for my 5mx(s) when they crap out - I don't use the "surfing/email" functions at all. Maybe I should start looking for one. Does it have the ribbon cable problem? Can you use a CF card? I assume one doesn't use PsiWin 2.3.3 with it, or do you? If not, does the S3mx PC program work with XP? Is the PC cable different from the 5/netBook? I also assume it operates on plain vanilla alkaline batteries.

I know folks will think I would be going backwards in technology instead of moving on to the all singing, dancing color/networking/games/infotainment/music gadgets on the market, but, as Rhett Butler said, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!" I want what pleases *me* and does what *I* want it to do. Them's *my* bucks paying for it. :-)

Happy Cycling,

Keith

Sunnyvale, CA

http://ohsix827.home.comcast.net

Thought For The Day: Health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

All my outgoing e-mails have been checked by Norton Anti-virus.

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:41:35 +0100

From: Edgar Brazda MD, PhD

Subject: Re: MSN

> Subject: Re: MSN Messenger for Epoc

I use nICQ on my netBook without any problem (and can chat with my colleauges from any public "hot spot" via WiFi)

Edgar, Budapest

PS: There was some change in ICQ about a year ago, and nICQ author Dr. David Kren immediately released a new version ... partly for his own sake. Moral: choose the instant messenger what the author really uses :-)

And thank you David again for the prompt answer.

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:43:47 +0100

From: Wong Koi Hin

Subject: Sony UX50 replies (OT)

Thanks to the persons who replied to my post on UX50, I was not able to reply earlier due to work commitments.

As suggested I checked out the UX50 on my trip in Bangkok at the Sony showroom at Emporium Sukhumvit. It was smaller than I imagined, much smaller. I had trouble with the keys, they were too small for me and I suspect I would need quite a lot of practice before I can get up to the similar typing speed as my Revo.

Kind Regards,

Koi Hin

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Nov 2003 17:43:50 +0100

From: Wong Koi Hin

Subject: POS, souped-up Revo rumour

I have seen a number of posts on POS doing a Revo-like Revo successor machine from this digest. I have checked POS website and couldn't find a reference to this. Can anyone confirm that POS is indeed intending to produce such a machine?

Thank you and kind regards,

Koi Hin

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 00:01:03 +0100

From: David Steer $Plus$

Subject: RE: Psiwin 2.3.3 crashes Windows XP Pro when using Psion 5mx

Nicholas,

I use a Series 7 with Psiwin and have experienced both issues you mention, though not on the same PC. One, the XP machine, had the first type of problem and the second, a win 2k machine, had the second problem.

The first on the XP was nothing to do with PsiWin and was to do with the NVIDA chipset drivers for the graphics card. First thing I would try would be to update the drivers for your graphics card and, just for sure, carry out a Windows update.

The second problem is a bit more tricky and for me, it was my Belkin USB adaptor - I tried updating the Belkin drivers and then played around with the settings - particularly the Com port mapping for the USB Belkin device. Also I set Psiwin to connect to only that Com port and not look for any other ports.

I am surprised you Bought PsiWin. I hope your only paid a small price to cover postage and the cost of the disk. PsiWin is free and can still be downloaded.

I advise you start at the beginning and first update XP and then the Balkin Adaptor. I hope this might resolve your problem. You can e-mail me off-digest if you need any further information.

Regards

David Steer

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 00:50:37 +0100

From: ketil

Subject: Re: MSN Messenger

If I've understood things right, what MicroSoft has done is to switch off support for the old versions of the MSN protocol (making v8 the minimum, if I remember correctly).

The main hurdle to implementing v8 (or v9) is that these are encrypted. To my knowledge they do use ordinary SSL or TLS (the same your web browser uses when making a secure connection), but doing SSL communications is a bit more complex than ordinary, "plain" communication. The big question though is whether there are SSL libraries available for Ruksun to use - implementing this from scratch is *not* trivial! Even porting existing libraries from Unix/Linux could be a major undertaking.

So... it's doable (several, if not most, of the free MSN clients for Unix/Linux already support the new protocol versions), but far from trivial.

There may be another possibility: If there is a Jabber client available for EPOC, *and* you can find a Jabber server which supports MSN, then you could use Jabber and let the server act as a gateway to MSN. I have not tried this myself though, on any platform...

Best regards,

-K

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,

doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 01:23:18 +0100

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

Dear Rolf

>>>I'm afraid that Martin and yourself are making a mistake here by talking about how easy it will be to port an application that's running on a Symbian OS 6/7 smartphone to a Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro. What you, both, forget is that the starting point for most of us isn't a Symbian OS 6/7 smartphone but a Symbian OS 5 Psion. We're therefore interested in what's going to happen with the Symbian OS 5 applications we're currently using. After all, we've spent quite some time getting to know these applications and have stored a sizeable amount of data in their file formats. Translate our experience and data into money and they represent a much bigger sum than the combined purchase price of our applications, Psion hardware, CF cards and peripherals. <<<

I think this is three different discussions. (1.) the overall availability of applications - old, new, ported and blue - for the proposed netBook Pro Symbian v7/UIn, and in particular the ease of porting between other Symbian OS v7 devices and the netBook Pro Symbian. (2.) the availablity of specific v5/Eikon applications on a proposed v7/UIn and (3.) the migration of data from a v5/Eikon device to a v7/UIn device.

On (1.), I think I have enough evidence both from my own experience in my own company, and by communicating freqently with various other software houses, that *YES* this is a trivial matter. However, the caveat here is that the 'UIn' - as I call the proposed netBook Pro Symbian user interface - should be designed for maximal commonality with existing UIs. The two considered UIs in this regard are the UIQ and the Series 90, as both are touch screen based and have built in scaleability. UIQ is the user interface, albeit in portrait mode, that is closest to Eikon in many ways. As UIQ is also owned by Symbian, it might make contractual matters easier. Series 90 on the other hand was designed for landscape screen from the outset and is now incorporated in the Nokia 7700, itself sporting 640 x 320 pixel screen (in fact identical resolution to the Geofox One).

On (2.), Here we have to look at applications one by one. We know, for instance, that RoutePlanner works for Symbian v6 and Symbian v7 Series 60 devices. I think it is highly likely that it will soon be available for both UIQ and Series 90 Symbian v7 devices. Many other v5/Eikon applications have already been ported to later Symbian OS versions. I think it was a great relief for when I got information that the Nokia 7700 includes Symbian Word and Sheet. The earlier worry was that Symbian had been considering dropping those two and instead promoting QuickOffice and that Symbian Word and Sheet would never be ported to Symbian OS v7. QuickOffice, while offering some welcome features like presentation, is, as far as I am concerned, still not on par with Word and Sheet, despite the two latter being almost unchanged since Series 5/ER1 - well Symbian Sheet now supports multiple sheets and Symbian Word has some more converters.

On (3.), I am aware that many people did have a bad experience when moving from Psion 5mx to Nokia 9200 Series. I believe it was a major faux pas by Nokia (and Symbian) not to cater for their community better and not offer some assistance in bridging the ASCII->Unicode chasm. I am sure this costed Nokia about half a million Communicator sales. It still defeats common sense that there is no ASCII/Unicode converter in Symbian Word for v6/Series 80, for instance, when there is such a converter in an awfully simple hack like MS Wordpad. But there *are* workarounds. I remember reading a 5mx->9210 porting guide a few years back and the conclusion was, indeed, that there were very few data that could not be ported. Sure, the methods include actions such as (a.) from Data on your 5mx, save as comma delimited text. (b.) move to PC. (c.) convert to Unicode using Wordpad. (d.) get a Data app for Nokia 9210 like HandyData or Kevin Millican's PsiData. (e.) move comma delimited Unicode text file ove r to 9210 and (f.) read it into the Data application of choice. Very much the same issues will arise when porting data from a netBook Classic to the proposed netBook Pro Symbian, or if porting data to a Nokia 7700 for that matter.

>>>We've therefore a very strong interest in our Symbian OS *5* applications being ported to the netBook Pro rather than the smartphone applications Martin and you keep talking about.<<<

Did we keep talking about 'smartphone applications' only? That's news to me. And what constitutes a 'smartphone application' anyway? Is an application which happens to be available on a Series 60 or UIQ phone to be considered a 'smartphone application'? If that is the case, RoutePlanner is now a 'smartphone application' since it is available for v6/S60 phones like Nokia 3650 etc.

Believe me, I *also* have a very strong interest in moving v5/Eikon applications and data to the netBook Pro Symbian, or perhaps to a Series 90 device if the former does not after all materialise. I am totally convinced that the switching cost will be much lower, and perhaps even trivial, if people in the Symbian community collaborate, than the alternative; moving to a Clie or anything WinCE.NET.

>>>D) There is no such thing as EPOC Release 5.1 / Symbian OS 5.1. It's simply called Symbian OS 5 and has version numbers (for my Series 7 it's Symbian OS 5 version 1.05). The only one that has a point release number is Symbian OS 6 - the Nokia 9210 uses 6.0 and the Nokia 7650 uses 6.1.<<<

Of course Rolf, I agree with all your comments to Arent and the like, very similar to mine. Though it is a bit tedious, unless we bring some facts and clarity to all this hogwash, some people might get confused by it. I see it as some kind of 'service' to the forum, cleanup action if you will.

But here I have a minor correction: there is in fact something called ER5.1 and Symbian OS v5.1. I have seen it in a lot of early Symbian technical documentation as an alternative name for ER5u, which was the Unicode build of ER5 used for Ericsson R380 with the one-off ECK (Ericsson Component Kit) user interface.

Dear Itamar,

>>> I feel that Psion Teklogix have decided to move away from the EPOC / Symbian OS in favour of WindowsCE. I don't think they will revise that decision in the near future so that even if a netBook Pro OS7 will come out, it will be a "dead-end" machine. <<<

Psion Teklogix is a relatively small company currently with five (!!!) operating systems. They are maintaining a product range of devices with SIBO, EPOC, WinCE, WinXP and their proprietary RiscOS at the same time. This is a nightmare!!! So I understand them, especially with their focus shifting to the North American market and to Microsoft loyal enterprise solution partners. The easiest ones to phase out are RiscOS and EPOC, the former because the devices are dated and the latter because the devices are powerful enough (netBook and netPad) to be moved to WinCE. Ironically, SIBO is firmly embedded in their very popular Workabout range and thus outlasting EPOC, its successor!

However, due to Microsoft's entry into the enterprise solution space, a very rapid and fundamental polarisation is happening in this market. Major vendors like PeopleSoft, IBM, Siebel, SAP, CA (and needless to say Oracle) etc etc etc corresponding to around 60%-80% of the total marketshare are abandoning .NET and going J2EE full steam. Over time they will have a clear strategic interest not to let Microsoft into any of their accounts. Symbian OS is the only other mature mobile enterprise computing OS that can fit the bill in this regard. Thus, over time, Psion Teklogix will *need* Symbian back. Sure, Linux is becoming an alternative also in the mobile computing space, but that means basically going it alone. Linux lacks a long range of mobile computing features, not the least with regards to telephony and connectivity.

What I hear from Psion Teklogix, the WinCE decision is driven from the North American market, and at the moment they do not have the cash-flow to do both WinCE and Symbian OS at the same time. But they have given clear indications that a Symbian OS version is still in the cards.

And, why would a machine running one of the most widely used operating systems be a "dead-end" machine? And on what basis do you say that a netBook Pro v7 would be more "dead-end" than a Sony Clie? Or any Pocket PC? See next point.

>>>Why should I as a consumer invest my money in such a machine as opposed to as you said a Palm or PocketPC machine where further development is more or less guaranteed ? <<<

Is it? Why do you say that? You mean the neighbour's garden is always nicer? Look, if you compare the number of "dead-end" Symbian devices with the number of "dead-end" Pocket PC devices, the latter dominates by several orders of magnitude. There is a multifarious amount of Pocket PC devices that have just been left in the lurch, just ask HP. Perhaps the NETBOOK PRO WinCE.NET will be one of them. There are already several indications of *incompatibilities* between this machine and software made for other WinCE.NET devices. Do people really think that they can take any PocketOffice originally made for, say, a HP Journada or iPaq and just run it on the NETBOOK PRO WinCE.NET? And you think Palm OS is *safe* from this? Forget it. Yes, they have had a smooth ride so far, almost like Apple had between System 3 to System 7, made possible by limiting the UI to one form factor only. But they are now in the midst of a major architectural transition, equal in magnitude to the EPOC16/SIBO to EPOC3 2/Symbian transition which Psion underwent from Series 3mx to Series 5. The amount of "dead-end" Palms is increasing.

>>>I like my S7 very much, use it daily, and will have to look for an update sooner or later. Besides the above points, at the price projected for the netBook Pro there will be a lot of competition in that price range. Personally I don't believe in the project, but again as you said, if it willcome about I could be a potential customer, but not "blindly at all odds".<<<

Fair point. And, in fact, I am personally in very much the same situation as you are. But calling the people that have promoted the netBook Pro Symbian "blind" is a bit of an insult. I do not think anyone is.

>>>For example, there are already reports of Opera not functioning properly due to more complex websites and I think that sooner or later efficient surfing of the web with our EPOC systems will be as good as impossible (web program even worse).<<<

This observation, without knowing exactly which websites you refer to, seem to have more to do with Microsoft's anti-competitive measures; basically sabotage of non MS browsers. It has nothing to do with the complexity of the Website per se, unless they are using the Microsoft prorietary application server pages (ASP) features. Opera is growing to become the dominant wireless browser. I hope this is the case. This means that webmasters increasingly will be concerned with Opera compatibility than IE compatibility. With the increasing use of Linux also on the desktop, Opera might over time create a significant beachhead there as well.

kind regards

Martin Maxwell

Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 09:06:46 +0100

From: ealasaidandsimon

Subject: Psion freeze problem

Dear all, I note that nothing has been said on this subject for a while, so just to update you all, the ingenious and generous denizens of Psion Place have created a working "interim" solution, which has (for us at least) stopped this rather crippling problem with our Psions. Anyone on this digest who was suffering the psion freeze problem should whizz across and have a look at the discussion.

http://www.pdastreet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26597

Simon

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 22:50:27 +0100

From: Jack

Subject: no more freezing?

Hi all

Googling comp.sis.psion.misc group, I read that

Hans Lub: hlub

has produced

Sink

a little java app intended to prevent our machine freezing with some ISP.

Anyone tested it?

Jack

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 22:53:11 +0100

From: Pierre Le Corfec

Subject: Psiwi 2.3.3 Windows XP

- I have noticed that after a connection problem you have to shutdown and restart from scratch

the connection would not reestablish itself correctly after a crash and automatic restart.

- when for some reason you lost the connection and cannot reestablish it from the task bar straight line

you can reestablish from the PSIWIN menu :Psion, Connect

- trying to swith off the connection through the task bar straight line would systematically crash the PC

- Have you checked that Copyanywhere is still ticked after the crash; Good luck you are getting there.

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Nov 2003 23:20:00 +0100

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Re: Psion USA

Joe,

Not sure how to answer this. The website is still up and working but the actual work is done by an outfit in Santa Clara.

Technology Logistics Systems

Servicelogistics.com Psion

3520 Thomas Road, Suite C

Santa Clara, CA 95054

USA

I checked out their website and they are a company specializing in support fuctions.

Everytime I return a Psion, the repair cost goes up. It's currently at $175, which is more than I paid for my Treo 90, but still cheap for a "replacement Psion."

I am learning as much as I can about Palm (my second choice in OS) as the bold lettering is on the wall. Also watching the possible POS version of a PDA. A machine either Revo or 5mx size with a decent keyboard would replace myTreo, be it Palm or EPOC.

jim - written on and sent from a Dana with SnapperMail in port townsend

...... Original Message .......

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:10:48 +0100 Epoc Digest wrote:

>Date: 10 Nov 2003 16:07:07 +0100

>From: Joe Fell

>Subject: Psion USA / First AND last name in data browser

>to: Jim Watson-Gove

>You recently wrote that you were planningon sending in a unit to Psion USA - are they still around?