Epocdigest V1 # 385

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Epoc Digest Sun, 23 Nov 2003 Volume 01 : Number 385

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Sent to: 789 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 30 messages:

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- Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 384

- Re: Net(Lowe)Book bug?

- FAO Jonathan Shapiro re. T3

- Psion 5mx and Sony Ericsson T610 settings

- Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 384

- Re: Interesting bug in OS/BackUp

- Psions for ears!!

- Screen brightness reduction

- SmtpAuth updated - Sink functionality now included

- Free ISP in Washington DC and New York City area?

- Backup of FONT files, 5mx switched off when knocked

- Re: Interesting bug in OS

- Compact Flash size

- Re: Martin on Psion OS

- Re: S3MX update

- Re: Rolf - nB Pro OS 7

- Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

- Re: S3MX Update

- Re: netBook/S7 screen differences

- Re: Psion takeover

- Re: Sony UX50 replies

- Re: s(3a/c/mx)

- Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

- Re: dream machine 5mx replacement ( a rookie question )

- Re: Psion back in the USA ?, Routeplanner with GPS

- T610 mobile setting, Replacement nB,

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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003

From: Digest administrator

Subject: telenet

The last 3 digests came back with "user unknown". We unsubscribed you for a week and hope you will solve this problem.

With best regards

Itamar Engelsman

The Epoc Digest Team

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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003

From: Digest administrator

Subject: JorgeR

The last 3 digests came back with the message "unknown recipient". We have unsubscribed you for a week and hope you will solve the problem.

With best regards

Itamar Engelsman

The Epoc Digest Team

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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2003

From: Digest administrator

Subject: nigelb

Over 40 digests were returned in one day as you did not open the messages (sigh). We unsubscribed you for a week and hope you will sort this problem out. If not we will have not other option but to permanently unsubscribe you.

Sorry and best regards

With best regards

Itamar Engelsman

The Epoc Digest Team

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 12:47:00 +0000

From: vlad a

Subject: refurbisClove!

Just found it looking for something else, jic it interests anyone:

http://clove.co.uk/products/products.asp?strAreaNo=400_1_4&intElement=358

5MX pro for £220 (£258.50 inc VAT).

They also have a (leather?) case for £ 5:

http://clove.co.uk/products/products.asp?strAreaNo=400_8&intElement=2293

best,

vlad a

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 14:07:09 +0000

From: Chris Arden

Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 384

Innovative uses for Psions

Still smiling at the message from Jonathan S that started with : "I've been using Psions for ears ..." I don't mean to offend you at pointing out an innocent typing error but thank you for giving me a good laugh :-)

Chris

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 14:35:34 +0000

From: Martin Guthrie

Subject: Re: Net(Lowe)Book bug?

Reply to: Rick Cowap

> I have a NetBook (from David Lowe) that I'm very happy with (The screen cable has lasted for more than 6 months !) > It does, however, have a strange bug.

> When I type uppercase "CY" into word or jotter it actually writes "CY?"

> This is not the case with my 5mx

Hi Rick,

Well, it's nothing to do with David Lowe since my standard netBook (same

OS build) does exactly the same. I've noticed the same effect before

when typing "NB" (which comes out as "NB~"). Interestingly, both these

only happen if you type the letters very quickly together. If you type

them more slowly, they appear normally. Must be an OS build quirk I

suspect.

Best regards,

Martin Guthrie

—————————

www.pscience5.net

www.freepoc.org

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 14:43:38 +0000

From: Simon Wolf

Subject: FAO Jonathan Shapiro re. T3

Jonathan,

"I've been using Psions for ears, but my netBook is gradually unravelling ..."

Thank you for cheering up my Friday afternoon. I had visions of Revos stuck to your head.

"It'll prob be a Tungsten T3 with a keyboard ..."

Not a bad idea and I would suggest the new Palm infrared keyboard so that you can edit documents in portrait or landscape views.

http://www.palmdirect.com/dr/sat4/ec_MAIN.Entry16?V1=612612&PN=1&SP=1002 3&xid=45007&V5=31032056&S1=&S2=&S3=&S4=&S5=&V2=&V3=&V4=&DSP=0&CUR=826&PG RP=0&CACHE_ID=0

"...I was just wondering about using powerpoint."

Have a look at Documents to Go which comes with your T|3.

http://www.dataviz.com/products/documentstogo/apps/app_slideshowtogo.htm l

There is also QuickPoint which is part of QuickOffice.

http://www.cesinc.com/quickoffice_premier/details.html

For showing presentations have a look at:

http://www.igo.com/Product_Detail.asp?PageSource=Search&PageType=Product Detail&CategoryID=&ItemID=8348

Note that although this is listed for the Palm m515 the universal connector means that it will connect to a T|3 just fine.

I just upgraded to a T|3 from my original Tungsten and I am delighted with it. The extra RAM and larger and better quality screen make this an excellent device. The recently released patch should have solved the SD card issues (and it seems that SanDisk cards are the biggest offenders). However I actually replaced my netBook with an Apple iBook which, although a little larger and heavier and with a shorter battery life is, in my opinion, a better portable machine for my needs. I won't go into all of the pros and cons but they are definitely worth a look, especially the new G4 iBooks.

"I'd probably buy TomTom's maps again..."

I am not sure that they work on OS5 machines like the Tungsten range. The TomTom site lists a range of Palms that the software will run on but the only Tungsten listed is the W which uses OS4 (the full list is III, IIIx, IIIxe, IIIc, V, Vx, VII, VIIx, M100, M105, M500, M505, M130, M125, M515, i705, Tungsten W, Zire). It looks to me as if TomTom are now only really committed to the Pocket PC and that Psions and Palms are being left behind. However I am sure that you would be able to find something similar for the Palm.

All the best.

Simon Wolf

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 15:07:32 +0000

From: Aleck Cartwright

Subject: Psion 5mx and Sony Ericsson T610 settings

Could someone please tell me the settings to use for my Psion with a Sony Ericsson T610, as well as how to set up GPRS etc.

I have just upgraded from a Psion 8210 and need the new settings to check my email etc. while on the road.

any tips will be much appreciated,

Thanks,

Aleck Cartwright

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 17:26:00 +0000

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Re: EPOC DIGEST V1 # 384

..... Original Message .......

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 13:45:29 +0000 Epoc Digest wrote:

>As for my own 5mx, its started switching off when knocked (unless mains cord is attached) and if you shake it it feels like something heavy is moving around inside. I was (of course) advised to send it in for an £80 service, but has anyone else experienced this?

Chris,

One of my 5mx's started feeling like there was a massive object loose inside. All was well until the screen cable went (no connection, I believe). I sent it in and when it was returned, that feeling was no longer there. Don't know what it was but suspect something was adrift.

jim - port townsend, washington

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 17:46:59 +0000

From: Edgar Brazda MD, PhD

Subject: Re: Interesting bug in OS/BackUp

> From: Mike Woodward

> I delete & refresh the contents on a regular basis & it asks me if I want to > skip each 'Read Only' file, but it never crashes.

> It's still a pain to then go back & manually remove the Read Only attribute & > delete each file & associated directory, so I decided to remove Read Only from > all the original files on drive C, I have not had any problems in the 6 months > since I did this.

Why do not you use BackUp application (freeware/shareware)? It does all

of this but totally automatically.

Edgar, Budapest

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 17:47:34 +0000

From: ian chapple

Subject: Psions for ears!!

Jonathan,

>> I've been using Psions for ears...<<

This sounds a bit like the "my dog has no nose..." joke.

Cheers, Ian.

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Date: 21 Nov 2003 20:06:40 +0000

From: Kevin Thorne

Subject: Screen brightness reduction

I notice a lot of postings about the reduction in screen brightness of the S7/netBook that seems to occur as the screen ages but no one has yet given a technical reason why this is so. Being a curious sort, can anyone supply an answer to my query? I can't say I've noticed any brightness reduction on my own S7 yet (which I've owned from new since March 2000) but I suspect if it has lost brightness, I would not have noticed the gradual deterioration over time anyway - but it still looks fine to me! However, one thing that is easily measurable is battery life and, using the excellent ChasDis, I am still getting around 6 hours between full charges from the original battery (with fairly heavy use of IR and a Microdrive). Not bad, eh?

Regards

Kevin Thorne

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 00:48:51 +0000

From: Marcus von Cube

Subject: SmtpAuth updated - Sink functionality now included

Hi,

I updated SmtpAuth to handle the functions of Hans Lubs "Sink" application as well. You can add a section to your INI file and SmtpAuth opens the configured ports in a dummy mode. This helps to prevent the lockups with some ISPs.

http://www.mvcsys.de/doc/smtpauth.html

Marcus

http://www.mvcsys.de

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 08:54:31 +0000

From: Johan Lindahl

Subject: Free ISP in Washington DC and New York City area?

Hi!

Does it exist free Internet providers in USA? I recall it has been discussed before and that it was very few or none? Maybe there is some PAYG service?

I wonder because i'm about too take a two week trip to Wash. DC and NYC in december and would like to keep contact with e-mail on my Psion.

Thanks in advance for any hints!

Johan Lindahl

Stockholm, Sweden

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 14:57:35 +0000

From: Armin Podtschaske

Subject: Backup of FONT files, 5mx switched off when knocked

Answer to Itamar

Re: Backup of FONT files

Should the backup find the files already backed up on the PC, I guess that it will not ask you to close or skip them.

The problem is, that backup will not back up open files, but the font files are either closed or deleted. You should place copies of the files in a non-system folder (e.g. Documents) and make a backup.

Afterwards you go to the PC and copy the backed up files from the Documents-folder into the appropriate System-folder.

Now the backup program should find already backed up files at the right position and not ask any more.

Short:

1. copy on Psion from System- to normal directory

2. backup

3. copy on PC from normal to System-directory

I can't prove it, because I don't have Fload, but it might be worth a try.

Answer to Chris

Re: 5mx switched off when knocked

The only heavy parts in a 5mx, that can move, are the batteries. If they move and lose contact, the 5mx will switch off. Maybe the spring in the battery-compartment is a little weak?

Psee you,

Armin, Munich, Germany

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Nov 2003 17:18:37 +0000

From: Rolf Vonau

Subject: Re: Interesting bug in OS

Itamar Engelsman wrote at 19 Nov 2003 12:39:22 +0000 in EPOC DIGEST V1 # 383

> I had an interesting bug in the OS today. I had a

> copy of my C disk of my S7 on the CF card and had

> called the folder "Disk C" (I am not sure whether

> the name is significant or not). There were

> several files that were "read-only".

> Tonight I deleted the folder again and each time

> the deletion hit one of these "read-only" files

> the S7 did a soft reset by itself after which I

> could skip the file and continue with the

> deleting. For 4 files this happened 4 times. Did

> anyone else ever hit this bug ?

Hi Itamar,

I don't think, that this is a bug. My 5mx Pro does the same.

It's quit a fact, that the Psions won't delete R/O files.

You can put things right by 2 ways:

the one way is to walk trough all directories, mark all files and set the files and directories READ/WRITE

the elegant way is to use my small program "DelPath.opo" (553 Byte only) I wrote for you just now, setting all files to R/W and then deleting them including the path itself. The program uses the great OPX "AldurFile.opx" by Graham L. Holden.

For the worst case make a backup before running the program!!

I will send it by PM.

If someone also want to get it, please let me know.

Best Regards

Rolf

Munich

http://home.arcor.de/rhvonau/index.htm

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:12:59 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Compact Flash size

Dear Scott,

<< Im too lazy to look this up, what is the maximun compact flash size you can use in your Netbook? >>

Somebody has yet to report that the CF card (s)he's bought is too big in storage capacity for his/her Series 5(mx), Series 7 or netBook to handle. The largest capacity CF card I use is 512 MByte, though I understand other Digest members use 1 GByte cards. Still, as our Psions are 32-bit systems the maximum addressable CF memory could very well be 2 to the power 32, which translates into 4 GByte. And the largest CF cards currently on the market are, indeed, 4 GByte cards.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:13:26 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Martin on Psion OS

Dear Scott ,

<< I am trying to understand how a embedded piece of code in hardware, be it epoc,palm,etc has anything to do with making microsoft tense other than usual business competition issues that have nothing to do with copywrite issues or IP problems >>

There's nothing wrong with you - it doesn't many any sense at all. Which is exactly what Martin tries to make clear.

Martin wrote in response to a message by Arent Kits van Heijningen who has repeatedly talked about embedded software in a very peculiar fashion. He uses the term 'embedded' for devices you can't install third-party applications on. To be more precise, so-called 'native' third-party applications that are developed for the device's operating system. Arent has also repeatedly mentioned that Symbian OS uses Microsoft intellectual property, He's yet to supply even one, single, example of the Microsoft IP that's inside Symbian OS, despite repeated requests.

These two items, embedded and IP, are strange enough in themselves, were it not that Arent links the two together. He thinks that, when Microsoft starts to enforce its IP rights, it will be the end of non-embedded Symbian OS devices. Meaning the devices you can install 'native' third-party applications on. In other words, Nokia has to withdraw its 9210, 7650, 3650, 6600 and N-Gage from the market. SonyEricsson will have to do the same for the P800 and P900, Psion-Teklogix for the netBook and netPad, etc.

God knows how Arent comes to this conclusion - but that's what he writes. Martin countered this by following Arent's 'logical link', but with a twist. Symbian Ltd. doesn't have to fear Microsoft on IP issues as Symbian OS is an embedded operating system. Which means that the above mentioned devices can stay on the market and that new ones can be developed. Martin's statement is also strange, of course. But it's a common tactic in debating to use your opponent's logic to show the fallacy of his/her logic.

<< Please understand Im not debating anyone, just trying to understand some of the apparent business issues I read in the digest >>

Like you, I prefer to discuss issues rather than people. I can't avoid talking about Arent Kits van Heijningen at this point, given the very strange statements that he's made recently. And they're not the only ones he's made on the Digest. They're in a long line of rather strange statements he uses to show that Symbian Ltd. and its Symbian OS is doomed to fail. There's nothing against having the idea that Symbian won't make it, or course. However, I think that I'm not the only one who expects such and idea to be based on a rational and cohesive line of thought. I'm sorry to say that's been lacking in Arent's messages.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:13:37 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: S3MX update

Dear Trygve,

<< No you don't... There are both Psion HC handhelds and the Psion MC600 machines, based on the SIBO architecture that runs (shudder) DOS... As I understand it, there's even a Linux (or was it Minix) for the S3 range >>

Which is nice to know when you look at the SIBO hardware platform from the perspective of a computer historian. Fact is that Arent wants to use the Series 3mx as a basis for his 'smartphone companion'. We can therefore skip DOS as it wasn't an option for Psion's Series 3 models. And the Minix port you refer to was more an intellectual exercise to show that Psion's Series 3 was capable of running it. Which is interesting for propellorheads but has a practical relevance of zero point zero. Opt for the Series 3mx and you automatically choose the SIBO operating system.

<< No, it's not... Psion Teclogix still produce and sell Workabout mx handhelds, based on the same technology >>

Which is irrelevant. First, because Psion-Teklogix isn't taking the SIBO operating system any further. It inherited the Workabout from Psion Enterprise Computing and keeps selling it for as long as there's a market for it. Secondly, the market for the Workabout is completely different from the market Arent is aiming his 'smartphone companion' at - the consumer market. The SIBO operating system is as dead as a doornail as far as the consumer market is concerned.

<< Bullshit, and you know it! If POS decides to add featues, it's easy to add to the system >>

Have a look at all the things Arent wants to do with (and wants to do to) the Series 3mx and you quickly realise that the only thing that's going to be left unchanged is the outer casing of the 3mx. Everything else needs to be modified or redesigned to fit Arent's specification.

<< As for the industry abandoning 16bits systems, it's not that long ago all Palm's used Motorola Dragonballs >>

You're saying it - "Palm used..." rather that "Palm is using...". The Zire was Palm's last 16-bit Dragonball based PDA and has been replaced by the 32-bit TI OMAP / PalmOS 5.2.1 based Palm Zire 21. It doesn't matter that the Zire 21 was launched recently. Technology trickles down and the market section the Zire was targeted at is the bargain basement section, the graveyard of old technology. Doesn't mean you can no longer buy a 16-bit Palm device as the Zire, M105, M125, M505 and M515 can still be found on dealer's shelves.

<< And compared to a Palm, even recent models, the S3mx beats it hands down on just about any task except networking. (Surfing/email) >>

Doesn't matter as what Arent wants to do with his 'Series 3mx as smartphone companion' won't be hard work for even a 16-bit Palm. Thing is, that he wants to have a number of features, Bluetooth for example, that haven't been supplied with 16-bit Palms, nor with 16-bit Psions. They are standard equipment, however, for quite a number of 32-bit PDAs currently on the market. The relatively inexpensive Palm Zire 71 has Bluetooth, for example. And the Zire 71 includes a number of features to suit Arent's interest in MMS as it's well equipped to handle pictures and sound. You can even use the Zire 71 to make a picture as it has a built-in camera. Do you want to have a keyboard - take the Sony Clié PEG-TG50. Do you have some cash attempting to burn a hole in your pocket - take a Palm Tungsten T3 or a Sony Clié PEG-NX73.

Using the Series 3mx and the SIBO operating system as a starting point for what Arent calls a 'smartphone companion' is sheer lunacy. Both 3mx and SIBO OS were mighty fine but their time has gone. They're no longer meeting the requirements of today's market. Irrespective of the 3mx knowing a few tricks a Tungsten T3 has yet to learn. Time has proven they weren't the tricks that mattered to the general consumer. Could be they're going to matter in time to come, but only a computer historian will remember the Series 3mx when time comes. General consensus is that Nicolaus Copernicus was the first to place the sun at the centre of what's now called our solar system. Poor Aristarchus of Samos as he proposed the same around 800 BC.

If there is a reason to choose the Series 3mx and the SIBO operating system it can be expressed in one single word : Nostalgia.

<< What I heard a few years ago, was that the OS development was done with M$ C++, and that there might have been an issue with some libraries ... >>

Microsoft C++ was used as a host application. It saved Psion having to create its own development environment as it could use a wide range of features present in MS-C++. The libraries as well as the compiler were pure Psion, though. You can therefore compare a developer's use of the MS-C++ environment to that of a novelist using MS-Word. The tool is Microsoft's all right, but not what's been created with it.

<< M$ did steal one of their directors, to head up the Phone software work for M$, but Psion managed to stop him from working for them for half a year >>

Juha Christensen was, if I remember correctly, a high-level employee of Psion Software involved in the negotiations that resulted in Symbian Ltd. What I'm sure of is that he was one of Symbian's executives and prime Symbian spokesman. Christensen was subsequently head-hunted by Microsoft, becoming Microsoft's executive vice president of its Mobile Devices Marketing Group. A group that didn't perform as expected and was placed under the direct command of Microsoft's 'head honcho' Steve Ballmer. Juha Christensen has decided to leave Microsoft at the end of November this year.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:13:49 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Rolf - nB Pro OS 7

Dear Itamar,

<< Re. Rolf - Last time this happened I emailed Rolf and he answered he had been very busy and unable to follow the digest. I suppose it is the same again >>

Correct. My holidays in Scotland were followed by a business trip during which I gave a number of training courses - time consuming work.

<< Re. Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro ... You did not mention that with the change from the S3 to the S5 we already went through this process once with Psion machines, requiring us to change systems, software and accessories. A second time within a few years does not help to built a trust with the consumers >>

Please note that this is a quite common phenomenon. Create a new technology and you're bound to build a number of limitations into it. Develop the technology and there comes a time that you're not able to take it further because of these limitations. Meaning that you have to development something new again.

Such technology changes will, inevitably, have their practical repercussions. You can't avoid them, whether you're a manufacturer or a purchaser. Both would like to have what can be described as more, better, easier, less costly, etc. A manufacturer who wants to offer these items may have to ask its user base to make a (painful) change. The purchasers who want have these items may force the manufacturer to make a (painful) change. Both manufacturer and purchaser do accept this situation as they realise it won't be curse and grumble free.

<< I feel that Psion Teklogix have decided to move away from the EPOC / Symbian OS in favour of WindowsCE. I don't think they will revise that decision in the near future so that even if a netBook Pro OS7 will come out, it will be a "dead-end" machine >>

Let's assume that Psion-Teklogix has, indeed, moved away from Symbian OS and has absolutely no intention to return to it at a later date. This means that the Symbian OS 7 based netBook Pro people have proposed Psion-Teklogix to produce won't become a reality. Not as a Psion-Teklogix product, that is, as the company has made its mind up.

But it leaves the people behind the proposal the option to take matters into their own hands and to sell the device under their own brand and model name. What's been talked about as the (Psion-Teklogix) Symbian OS 7 based netBook Pro will become (say) the Omega by the Alpha company. They can do this by:

a) Licensing the netBook Pro hardware from Psion-Teklogix,

b) Becoming a Symbian OS and UIQ licensee

c) Making the necessary changes to Symbian OS and UIQ (Martin's UIn),

d) Outsourcing the production to a company like Flextronics (or even get Psion-Teklogix interested),

and,

e) To bring the resulting device on the market.

This doesn't turn our 'Alpha Omega' into a dead-end machine. The people behind the venture can develop the 'Omega' further, both hardware and software wise. And when the venture is sufficiently successful they will have the necessary finances to develop their own successor to this netBook Pro derivative.

<< Why should I as a consumer invest my money in such a machine as opposed to as you said a Palm or PocketPC machine where further development is more or less guaranteed ? >>

Itamar, there's NO risk avoidance strategy when it comes to digital technology. Not for those who create products based on digital technology nor for those who buy them. You wouldn't be using a Psion Series 7 when the buying public had shunned the Psion Organiser. Nor would you mention Palm had people judged the Palm Pilot too risky to buy. There's also no guarantee that your Sony Clié PEG-NX73 will be developed further. Could very well be that its format will be replaced by a smartphone of a higher level specification than the SonyEricsson P900. Smartphones can develop at such a pace that the PDA quickly becomes a computer species on the verge of extinction.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:03 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

Dear Martin,

<< I think this is three different discussions. (1.) the overall availability of applications - old, new, ported and blue - for the proposed netBook Pro Symbian v7/UIn, and in particular the ease of porting between other Symbian OS v7 devices and the netBook Pro Symbian. (2.) the availablity of specific v5/Eikon applications on a proposed v7/UIn and (3.) the migration of data from a v5/Eikon device to a v7/UIn device >>

Oh, come on, Martin!! You're responding to a message in which I mentioned that the discussion about the netBook Pro Symbian has been rather technological and developer orientated lately. And that this form of discussion doesn't answer the questions and concerns of people like Itamar. People who are first and foremost *users* of Psion gear. What do we get as a reply - the above as a preamble to three paragraphs filled with 'developer talk'. Somebody who's a Psion user won't see the netBook Pro Symbian for the Series 90s, UIQs, 7700s EIKONs, Series 80s, Unicodes and Symbian V7s when reading it.

<< Did we keep talking about 'smartphone applications' only? That's news to me. >>

You've mentioned the Nokia 7700 and 9210 in the paragraphs in which you work out items (1.) to (3.) above. These two Nokias are smartphones, just as the BenQ P30 and Fujitsu FOMA F2051 you've mentioned in a previous message. Working out items (1.) to (3.) you mention UIQ and Nokia's Series 60, 80 and 90 which signals 'smartphone' to people. Finally, the very first thing you mention when working out items (1.) to (3.) is that porting smartphone applications is a trivial matter. It's all smartphone smartphone, smartphone.

I appreciate that you'd like to give a complete picture, warts and all. What it doesn't do is to answer questions and concerns people have in a language they can understand. It's all very well to say that the user interface for the netBook Pro Symbian will be a choice between adopting and adapting UIQ or Series 90. That's completely irrelevant to many people as what the user interface will be is something for the developers of the netBook Pro Symbian to decide. They're going to use the result of that decision, whether it's UIQ or Series 90. That is, when they can get an answer to the question whether such applications as Macro5, Psion Money or Route Planner become available for the netBook Pro Symbian.

In this light it's counter productive to talk about QuickOffice. When people read that it's a rival to Word and Sheet they can start to think that the netBook Pro Symbian will come with QuickOffice. That they're going to loose two applications that have served them for years and years. It's also counter productive to talk about the bad experience people had when moving from a Psion Series 5mx to a Nokia 9210(i). That's the last thing people want to read when they're already worrying about what's going to happen with Macro5. Specially when you supply them with a convoluted step (a.) to step (f.) method for getting Series 5mx Data files across. What it says is that the move to a netBook Pro Symbian will be a very painful experience for them.

And then I read the sentence "Many other v5/Eikon applications have already been ported to later Symbian OS versions". My immediate response was a deep groan. I'm sure quite a number of us are already putting a bit of money aside to pay for a successor to their Psion Revo, Ericsson MC218 or Psion Series 7. They've resigned to the idea that their next PDA will be a Windows Mobile or PalmOS device. Some are already thinking about a specific device like an Alphasmart Dana or the new Sony UX50. If there's one thing that will steer them away from PalmOS or Windows Mobile devices it's reading a list of EPOC Release 5 applications that have been ported to Symbian OS 6 or 7. When people see their favourite applications mentioned the worry about loosing them when buying a netBook Pro Symbian will be greatly diminished. And you spend one single sentence on one of the items that interests people the most!! That's an own goal, Martin. Given the number of words you spend on other subjects, you're sending out the signal that porting EPOC Release 5 application to the netBook Pro Symbian isn't important at all.

<< And what constitutes a 'smartphone application' anyway? >>

That's academic because a smartphone is a different device that's being bought by different people. It's not the Series 5mx or the Revo people have - a device that's been discontinued and will have to replaced by a different PDA at some point in time. The more you talk about smartphones the more people will come to understand that you're not talking to them.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:17 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: S3MX Update

Dear Martin,

<< ... I have a minor correction: there is in fact something called ER5.1 and Symbian OS v5.1. I have seen it in a lot of early Symbian technical documentation as an alternative name for ER5u ... >>

[FX : Muffled Curses] I've *completely* forgotten that one. My apologies to Arent Kits van Heijningen and I hereby withdraw item (D) from the message addressed to him as posted on EPOC Digest no. 379.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:25 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: netBook/S7 screen differences

Dear Grant,

<< I noticed that the screen of a friend's S7 is more legible on brightness setting one than my own netBook is on level nine ... I was wondering if the performance of the backlight deteriorates over time, or whether newer machines have improved screens? >>

Could be a question of both. The backlight does wear out and will become dimmer and dimmer in time. Which explains why you have to set the screen of your netBook at a higher brightness level. It doesn't exclude an improved screen as its manufacturer may have introduced production changes or fine tuned construction to give a better screen. You'd have to compare the screen of the netBook when new with the screen of your friend's Series 7 to see the difference. That is, when you able to detect the difference as all eyes aren't equal. Some people's eyes are more sensitive than others.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:32 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Psion takeover

Dear Itamar,

<< ... Secondly, _if_ it was true, do you think they would tell the world and especially the press about it ? >>

Both Nokia OY and Psion Plc. are listed on the stock exchange and have to abide by the rules on notification and disclosure. When the two companies enter negotiations and reach the stage that an agreement is imminent they have to inform the financial markets. And when a journalist hears about some negotiation and asks the companies about it they will have to give an honest answer. After all, somebody interested in buying Psion Plc. shares may judge a Psion Plc. with 31.2% share in Symbian Ltd. differently from a Psion Plc. without a share in Symbian Ltd. but with a pile of cash.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:39 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Sony UX50 replies

Dear Nicole,

<< I probably have smaller fingers than you. I love the touch of the keyboard. >>

I've had the chance to play with a Sony UX50 at one of the electronics megastores in the neighbourhood. I agree that having slender fingers will be an advantage. Still, what bugged me is that the keys are almost flush with the surrounding bezel. What's worse, that the keys follow the contours of the bezel. This makes it difficult to feel whether you have a finger right in the middle of a key. While the keys of the Revo, Series 5mx and Series 7 are shaped in such a way that you feel whether you have you finger in the middle or at the edge of a key. Needles to say that I made quite a number of typing errors on the Sony UX50 because of this. I really had to keep looking at the keyboard to see whether I was hitting the right key the right way. A recipe for slow and cumbersome data entry.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:47 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: s(3a/c/mx)

Dear Philip,

<< But they are 16 bit machines and some people don't like that - why, I don't know >>

There's nothing against using a 16 bit PDA. The only thing is that industry has moved to 32 bit PDAs which has a direct effect on what you're able to use a 16 bit PDA for.

The Psion Series 3, for example, was developed at a time that there was no standard small-format memory card. Psion therefore developed its own SSD format. Result is that you're limited to SSDs and 2 MByte per card. Unless you can find one of those 8 MByte SSD cards that were supplied by New World Technologies. They're as rare as hens teeth because the price of an 8 MByte SSD was almost the price of the Series 3a/3c/3mx itself. Third-party software development for the Series 3 models effectively stopped around 1998/1999. You therefore have to work with whatever software title you can still find. That is, without the support of its developer as (s)he will have moved on some years ago. Getting a Series 3 model repaired is effectively limited to Pinnock Organiser Services who still supports them.

The above, and more, makes the purchase of a second-hand Series 3 model not advisable. Buying one is only advisable when you're still using a Series 3 model, are still satisfied with it, and want to have a spare unit as an insurance. Then there's buying one as part of a Psion/PDA collection. The only 16 bit PDAs that are fair purchase candidates are such Palm models as the M515 and Zire plus the Sony Clié PEG-SJ33. PalmOS made the switch to 32 bit much later than Psion and you can still buy the above PalmOS 4.x devices in the shops as they're leftover stock.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:14:56 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro

Dear Itamar,

<< You write in very technical language. What I understand is that on (1) it will be difficult to impossible to copy EPOC programs and data to the planned machine.... >>

I was already afraid that Martin's message would be confusing as it's peppered with terms and abbreviations you're not (that) familiar with. Let's therefore forget most of the terminology and have a look at the basics.

When you move an EPOC Release 5 application you're going to have to deal with new hardware (netBook Pro), a new operating system (Symbian OS 7) and a new user interface system (UIn). None of the three are completely new as they're based on previous versions. What you therefore have to look at are the things that have been removed, added or changed.

One of the hardware changes is that the netBook Pro has a larger, 800 by 600 pixel, screen capable of showing 65.536 individual colours. Things that have been added are an SD memory slot and a USB serial communication interface. What's been removed are the silk-screen buttons around the screens of our Psions. When your application reads and writes files you therefore need to take account of the new SD slot.

Things are less visible when it comes to the operating system and user interface. What the developer needs to investigate is what's happened to their Application Programmers Interface or API. A wide range of instructions that give the developer access to ready-made operating system and user interface functions. You have to take account of what's been removed and changed and investigate whether, where and to which extent your application is effected by this. You're free to disregard the things that have been added, but it may not be wise to do so. It's very well possible that some of these things make life much easier for you. And you're given a helping hand as Symbian has published documents describing the changes that have been made in Symbian OS 6 and 7. It also supplies recommendations how best to deal with them. The same applies to the UIQ user interface the people behind the Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro project will use as a basis. These people will need to write an addendum to the UIQ documents describing the differences a developer needs to know about when writing an application for the netBook Pro.

All the rest falls under the 'Has remained the same' category. Which includes all those sections of your application that have nothing to do with the hardware, operating system or user interface. The things your application does all on its own. Think of the algorithm Route Planner uses to determine the right route or the financial mathematics of a personal finance manager like ABP.

Moving an application from the EPOC Release 5 Psions to the Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro may therefore not be as "difficult to impossible" as you have picked up from Martin's message. However, neither Martin nor myself can tell how easy or difficult it will be. That depends on the EPOC Release 5 application in question. It's actually better not to talk about easy, difficult or impossible but about the amount of work a developer needs to do. The more an application relies of things that have been changed the more an application will need to be modified to suit the Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro.

Regarding data, moving an application from the EPOC Release 5 Psions to the Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro implies moving the data as well. A developer has done only part of the job when (s)he hasn't thought about the data files people have on their Psions. The new application can't be considered finished when it doesn't include a file import/export function. Though not strictly called for, a separate utility for the bulk conversion of files from the old to the new format will be the icing on the cake.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:15:09 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: dream machine 5mx replacement ( a rookie question )

Dear Gilles,

<< How about a fast "5Mx" (with touchscreen and able to run ER5 native apps) with cellphone capability and colorscreen ( and usb interface ) ? Do any of the available phone sets come close to that ? >>

It's a mixture of features that's not offered by any of the mobile phones currently on the market. The one that comes closest to the format of the Series 5mx is the Nokia 9210i Communicator. It's a clamshell phone with a colour screen in landscape orientation and a full QWERTY keyboard. What it doesn't have is a touchscreen nor a USB serial interface. And it's running Symbian OS 6, the successor to EPOC Release 5, and the Series 80 user interface.

When you insist on having a touchscreen your first options are the SonyEricsson P800 and the recently released P900. They have a colour touchscreen in portrait orientation though smaller than that of the 9210i (P800 : 208 by 320 pixels - 9210i : 640 by 240 pixels). They don't have a keyboard so that data entry will be by handwriting recognition or by tapping the keys of an on-screen keyboard. They do have a USB serial interface and are running Symbian OS 7 and the UIQ user interface.

Much more PDA-like is the recently launched Nokia 7700. It has a 640 by 320 pixel colour touchscreen in landscape orientation as well as a USB serial interface. Like the P800/P900, data entry will be by handwriting recognition or on-screen keyboard. The 7700 is running Symbian OS 7 and the Series 90 user interface.

As departure will be the Treo 600, originally by Handspring which is now part of Palm (or PalmOne as the company is called nowadays). It has a colour touchscreen as well as a small keyboard, others would qualify as a thumbboard. A USB interface is included, but the caveat is that the Treo 600 is running PalmOS 5.x.

If you're willing to contemplate switching to Windows Mobile there are the Hewlett Packard Jornada 928 and the O2 XDA. Both are 'typical' Windows Mobile PDAs with a mobile phone on board.

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 22 Nov 2003 23:15:19 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Psion back in the USA ?, Routeplanner with GPS

Dear Itamar,

<< Does this mean a second trial of Psion to hit the USA market ? >>

No, it doesn't. Teklogix was already active in the US well before Psion Plc. bought the company and merged it with Psion Enterprise Computing to form Psion-Teklogix. And, please, note that Psion Computers, the company that sold the Revo, Series 5mx and Series 7, remained being present on the US market till it ceased trading.

<< I do hope they learned their lessons of the past !! >>

It needs reminding that Psion Computers is a completely different company than Psion-Teklogix. Compare them to the automotive world and it's Psion Computers that built cars while Psion-Teklogix is building trucks. Their products and markets are therefore sufficiently different to make learning from each other a rather useless exercise. What they can tell each other is rarely of any practical use. It may be nice to know how you sell a Series 5mx to a consumer but Psion-Teklogix doesn't sell to consumers.

<< ... Unnecessary to say that he had programmed the shortest route instead of the best route and was stuck in the "middle of nowhere" ... >>

Well ... when driving the lowest number of kilometres is what counts, the best route is indeed the shortest route. Your colleague apparently wanted to drive in the shortest time and should have asked the navigation system to plan the fastest route. A case of operator error, probably based on inexperience with the navigation system of his rented Mercedes E240.

<< The great advantage of route (and street) planner is that you see the map and can judge yourself whether that is the best route to follow or to try a different one >>

Your colleague didn't have any choice and had to work with the navigation system that was fitted to the E240. Had he bought the E240 himself, he might have chosen a different one. Either one of the factory fitted navigation systems or an after-market one.

The simplest navigation system you can factory fit to an E-class Mercedes is, indeed, one that doesn't include a map display. Spend some extra money and you get one that has a display. Spend some more and the system doesn't use a CD but a DVD. The DVD not only storing the map data but also a wide range of places to visit. When you're almost out of fuel you can ask the navigation system to direct you to the nearest petrol station. And when you have to pick up somebody from the Leeuwenbrug Hotel in Delft you ask the navigation system for the directions to it. You don't have to know the address of the Leeuwenbrug Hotel (Koornmarkt 16). And when you really want to go wild you can have a navigation system with a large display that's also used for watching TV or DVD movies (when the car's stationary, that is).

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

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Date: 23 Nov 2003 01:53:01 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: T610 mobile setting, Replacement nB,

In general : Be aware that on the European flights I took last week (4 in total) it was absolutely forbidden to use a telephone, even in standbye mode. If you use a phone like the P800 or Nokia 92xx you have a good chance you will be forbidden to use it in airplanes as you will not be able to convince the staff that the telephone part is off. I heard that in modern planes the connection from the cockpit to the tale of the plane is electronic and mobile phones could disturb this connection.

Answer to: Steve Morton

Re.: T610 mobile setting - I use the following

----------

Infrared mobile phone

19,200 baud

Infrared

----------------

Never

Quiet

4 seconds

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ATZ in the first one, the other two blanc

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Hardware (RTS/CTS)

Carrier detect ticked

mobile

Answer to: Jonathan Shapiro

Re. Replacement nB - Actually I think I would buy a nB again (I use a S7). They are strong machines that keep going for many years and it will help you in this interim period until we will know what the future holds for any further Epoc / Symbian machines. I can't imagine that the T3 will satisfy your needs.