Epocdigest V1 # 386

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epoc Digest Mon, 24 Nov 2003 Volume 01 : Number 386

************************************************************************

Sent to: 788 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 17 messages:

==============================

- Chris Archer

- Re: Using Smartphones while flying (OT)

- Sony UX50 replies

- Free ISP in DC / Native Word files on Palm

- Tungsten T3

- 3/3a/3c/3mx

- Re: CF Card sizes

- Program

- re: cf Cards,embedded code,owners rights, future of Psion PDA's

- Revo/Mako faxing via Nokia 6310i on Orange (UK)

- RE: Compact Flash size

- Psiwin / Regclean / Win XP

- psion5 personal dictionary

- RE: Arent, Symbian netBook Pro, application porting, embedded vs non-embedded etc

- refurbisClove!, TomTom's maps, T610 settings, Rolf - nB Pro OS 7,

- Psion takeover, Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro,

- Net(Lowe)Book bug?

*++++++++++&

Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003

From: Digest administrator

Subject: Chris Archer

Unfortunately your email address continuously returns the digest with the message "hostname has no address". We temporary unsubscribed you for a week and if you read this from the website please correct the situation.

With best regards

Itamar Engelsman

The Epoc Digest Team

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 05:36:17 +0000

From: Wong Koi Hin

Subject: Re: Using Smartphones while flying (OT)

Reply to Itamar Engelsman

Dear Itamar,

>>In general : Be aware that on the European flights I took last week (4 in total) it was absolutely forbidden to use a telephone, even in standbye mode. If you use a phone like the P800 or Nokia 92xx you have a good chance you will be forbidden to use it in airplanes as you will not be able to convince the staff that the telephone part is off. I heard that in modern planes the connection from the cockpit to the tale of the plane is electronic and mobile phones could disturb this connection.

I was given to understand that the ban on turning on mobile phones on planes was because it was a transmitting/receiving device, and may interfere with the navigation system of the plane. (Has there been a known case of mobile phones interfering with the navigation of a plane? I do not know of any) How should the fact that modern planes are "fly by wire" be any different? We are allowed to operate other electronic devices like laptops and PDAs after take-off and before landing. Surely the same treatment should be given to Smartphones if they are not in tx/rx mode.

It would seem to me to be a case of convincing the airlines that the smartphones are not in transmission mode. Perhaps bringing along the instructions manual might be helpful. :) We might also write in to the airlines about this matter.

Warm regards,

Koi Hin

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 07:40:36 +0000

From: carb.freeserve.co.uk

Subject: Sony UX50 replies

To: Rolf Brunsting

Rolf

I should get my new UX50 on Thursday. I shall let you know then.

Nicole

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 09:44:00 +0000

From: Peter Rand

Subject: Free ISP in DC / Native Word files on Palm

Hi Johan,

Subject: Free ISP in Washington DC and New York City area? Thanks in advance for any hints!

There are public libraries everywhere in the U.S., and most of them offer visitors free Internet access. I would therefore highly recommend that you establish a free webmail account before your trip to the U.S. (Yahoo/Softhome/webmail etc.). This way you can access your mail for free from anywhere there is Internet access (library/kiosks/friend's house, etc ). Some webmail accounts also allow you to access your other POP3 accounts as well. It's 100% reliable and doesn't cost anything.

Peter

Native Word files on Palm

=================

I've just installed the latest version of Documents To Go on my Palm, and am pleased to say I can now, for the first time ever, create professional looking documents in native Word & Excel format directly on the Palm. It's pretty amazing actually. Of course, the screen is definitely not WYSIWYG, so you need to have a certain amount of imagination when creating docs. Documents To Go includes a decent spell-checker as well.

Peter

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 11:09:12 +0000

From: Rick Gillyon

Subject: Tungsten T3

> From: Simon Wolf

> Subject: FAO Jonathan Shapiro re. T3

> I just upgraded to a T|3 from my original Tungsten and I am > delighted with it. The extra RAM and larger and better quality > screen make this an excellent device.

Just bought a T3 myself, been using it for 3 or 4 weeks now. Bought it as a *possible* 5mx replacement. I'm more than happy with it, it only has two drawbacks so far:

1. rechargeable battery (recharge every night)

2. no keyboard.

Grafitti is pretty quick, but nowhere near as good as a keyboard. The upside of this is that it's easy to take notes wherever you are, jotting things down like I never would with a 5mx, e.g. in a shop, at a museum, looking up words on the go. It easily fits ina trouser pocket. I think an add-on keyboard would only be necessary if you do a lot of typing on the PDA, I don't find it necessary.

Full Word/Excel/Powerpoint compatibility, *beautiful* screen, stacks of RAM spare, and going from a 37MHz CPU to a 400MHz makes quite a bit of difference. I realise it's not multitasking, but most applications behave well and re-open where you left off.

Some features are missing, e.g. Data, but HanDBase ($30) offers far more features than Data. A few other add-ons are advised to spice up the Calendar and Clock. After these it replaces the 5mx fully except for the two points noted above, and that searching, route-planning, clearing bank accounts etc. is remarkably quick compared to the 5mx.

> "I'd probably buy TomTom's maps again..." I am not sure that they

> work on OS5 machines like the Tungsten range.

They do not work at all on OS5, and TomTom will not give a date when (or even if) they will be available. For an excellent alternative, giving door-to-door instructions, go to www.mapopolis.com.

Itamar wrote:

> Re. Replacement nB - Actually I think I would buy a nB again (I use > a S7). They are strong machines that keep going for many years and

> it will help you in this interim period until we will know what the > future holds for any further Epoc / Symbian machines. I can't

> imagine that the T3 will satisfy your needs.

It depends what you need. If you can do away with the need for a keyboard (I'm surprised how easy it was for me) the T3 can do everything the 5mx can (and a whole lot more). Add in all its other features e.g. Bluetooth, and you have a winner (in my book, at least). I'll be eBay-ing both my 5mxs and lots of accessories over the next few weeks, I really *can't* now go back to that dull screen again...and I've been a Psion devotee for a *looong* time!

<sniff>...it was beautiful while it lasted... ;)

Rgds,

Rick

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 11:42:33 +0000

From: Philip S. Adkins Potter

Subject: 3/3a/3c/3mx

Hi Rolf,

I know the industry has moved away from 16 bit OSs *but* if that covers all you want and much more then some users are actually going to happier with a suitable 16 bit OS unless they want all the bells and whistles they don't need and can't use.

Some years ago in a Surrey pub I met a chap moaning about his new colour television - it showed black and white films - in black and white! I assume he bought an old monochrome box just for watching old monochrome films.

But I also know a painter (a good one with a marvellous sense of colour) who regularly gets badgered by the licensing authority because he only has a monochrome TV - they don't believe he hasn't a colour one.

The second guy knows he doesn't need a colour TV and the first guy didn't know he didn't need a TV at all.

The second guy bought my 3 (vanilla) years ago and it still suits his purposes well while his wife uses some extremely powerful computers at work which she needs (she's an engineering designer). Horses for courses.

It's also pretty certain that the 3/3a/3c/3mxs will *way* outlast the 5 series as working machines. POS will probably agree too. Certainly the SSDs are expensive and small, but the files are small too and the MTBF for SSDs is enormous. The Agenda application on the 3a/c/mx is as sophisticated as on the 5/5mx, the World application is effectively more powerful and the Agenda and Data applications both support tone dialling and integrate with the World application for this - a feature that the 5 and 5mx lack (on the 3 series Data is also the equivalent of Contacts).

I have an old 3a that I use solely as a sophisticated alarm clock and a nearly new 3c and I'm going to get at least one 3mx. But I don't want them as museum pieces - I use the 3a and the 3c and I want more as insurance. I also have two 5mxs and I'm going to get a netBook/7/7book too but the SIBO machines will be my main machines when the others finally go phut and they probably will.

Certainly the 3 series are effectively (and some actually) inadequate for the web and will probably, and probably soon, become inadequate for eMail. That certainly doesn't render them inadequate as pocket computers otherwise, nor does the file-size restriction nor the lack of export facilities. Virtually all desktop programs can import text files (where relevant of course) and EPOC doesn't export much in desktop format anyway without nConvert (or an equivalent).

The simple fact is that neither EPOC nor SIBO are Micrs**t-compatible OSs. Neither is approved of by Windoze-lovers and neither is supported natively by any other OS. Even EPOC has limited support for SIBO file formats.

I'm not knocking ER5/ER4/ER3 machines but they will soon be obsolete by many people's standards as SIBO machines already are. But they are both stable and if SIBO is more so there are excellent reasons.

It is really true that the nearest equivalents to the 5 series are the 3 series as there is nothing else with the versatility, speed, portability or battery life. Yet.

But I do think that anyone starting with SIBO machines now needs to be very sure that this is what they want and that they will be quite adequate.

Good luck,

Phil.

"When in doubt,

tell the truth."

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 12:55:49 +0000

From: Marcus von Cube

Subject: Re: CF Card sizes

Hi Rolf

>Still, as our Psions are 32-bit systems the maximum addressable CF memory could very well be 2 to the power 32, which translates into 4 GByte. And the largest CF cards currently on the market are, indeed, 4 GByte cards.

Almost correct, but not quite:

1) The number of bytes on disk that can be addressed by 32 bit numbers is 2^32 * <sector size>, the latter of which is typically 512 bytes. This amounts to roughly 2,2 *10^12 bytes.

2) The FAT16 filesystem limits the size of a partition to 2 GB. This is due to the maximum number of entries in the FAT (file allocation table) and the maximum size of a cluster each of which is addressed by a bit in the FAT. Only the FAT32 filesystem, introduced with Windows 98 breaks this barrier. On the other hand FAT32 is not supported by EPOC.

So I believe that the maximum supported partition size on EPOC is 2 GB. Since EPOC does not seem to support partitioned CF cards, this limits the total usable CF card size to 2 GB.

Marcus

http://www.mvcsys.de

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 15:50:31 +0000

From: Philip S. Adkins Potter

Subject: Program

Hi,

Question:

On my 5mx, if I try to activate "Program" I get an errr message

" Program Closed

Program - Program

Reason code - EIKON- CLOCK

Reason number - 1"

which I don't understand.

I know EPOC can throw up similar error messages, particularly in Word, for strange reasons but most (all?) of these can be fixed by a hard reset. I took all 3 batteries out of the machine and left them out for 1½ hours but on restoring my system the same message appeared on trying to open "Program" files.

nOPL+ opens these files so the problem is not the files. Perhaps I should let the Psion discharge for longer to reset properly and perhaps I should even remove the CF card. But even if this rectifies the situation I'd like to find a way of avoiding it altogether.

Is there one?

Happy days,

Phil.

"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your efforts

when you have forgotten your aim."

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 19:03:22 +0000

From: Scott Lloyd

Subject: re: cf Cards,embedded code,owners rights, future of Psion PDA's

Hello my friends,

Great last digest. would like to thank Rolf for his comments on everything, info on compact flash size req's and his input on embedded code and a "presumed threat from microsoft" . Here are some points to ponder:

1. Microsoft does not own, C++,ISDN,GPRS,GSM,FTP,IDL, and many more to mention. What they do own is a LAME os

covered with pretty buttons, and made their success based on good marketing and a computer market that was for the most part scared of computers and needed someone to hold their hand and make all of the complex stuff "go away". Hence the lack of access to the OS by Joe user.

2. Psion computes were and still are light years ahead of microsoft as far as the core OS. The opposite happened to Psion,

Psion marketing appears to have been strong in Europe but after the original series 5 I never ever saw a Series 7 or Netbook on any shelves in the US.

3. The digest and the thousands of Psion users worldwide should be all they need (besides lots of cash) to jump start their business unit and kick some serious backside!

I cannot for the life of me figure out why everybody is so frightened of Microsoft. that is a huge un-connected and fragile

company ready and ripe to have so more nipping at their feet.

I will admit I probably live in utopia between my ears, but considering the alternative, i'll stick with utopia.

God bless from Texas

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 21:34:08 +0000

From: John Morris

Subject: Revo/Mako faxing via Nokia 6310i on Orange (UK)

I recently upgraded from the Nokia 6210e to the 6310i phones, but now I can't fax! An error message "Error 101- Setup error. This is generated when the modem fails to produce an appropriate response. Most commerror (Psion's word!) can also be caused by a faulty port, a faulty cable or a low modem battery" is displayed. I can email & web-browse OK, so my IR port is working. Orange have confirmed that my fax number is still activated. Does anyone have an idea what I can try next, please?

Thanks

John Morris, Cambs UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 23 Nov 2003 23:50:10 +0000

From: David Steer $Plus$

Subject: RE: Compact Flash size

Dear Rolf,

<< Still, as our Psions are 32-bit systems the maximum addressable CF memory could very well be 2 to the power 32, which translates into 4 GByte >>

You Are correct on the current size of card available, though much more common is 2GB. However, My PC is 32 bit and it as a 80GB hard drive! The main issue with CF cards and the Psions is the maximum amount of addressable size under the File Access Table (FAT). To use more than 2GB you need FAT32 or NTFS, I understand that most CS cards will be formatted with FAT16 (I have also herd mention of FAT12 and FAT24) on the Psion. This means that CF cards with more than 2GB (such as the forthcoming 4GB Microdrive) may only show 2GM available. IT would be interesting is our Psions can use the full 4GB - anyone out there have any ideas?

Regards

David Steer

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 11:20:18 +0000

From: Christopher Marwood

Subject: Psiwin / Regclean / Win XP

Hi all,

A friend has moved to XP and his Psiwin 2.3.2 seems flakey. I suggested he upgrade to 2.3.3 but the installer won't do it, even when 2.3.2 is supposedly uninstalled. In the past I have used Regclean to clean out Psiwin but does this work with Windows XP? If not, is there an equivalent utility? Am I right that 2.3.3 will work better with XP?

Many thanks,

Chris

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 12:20:08 +0000

From: anthony ross

Subject: psion5 personal dictionary

dear boudewijn

Thanks for the suggestion but the file wasn't read only limited. I reset all the properties - still no joy. I tried a soft reset that didn't work either.

The next will be the hard reset which should recreate the file but without any data. The present user.dic size is 8446 by the way, maybe this is the limit.

regards

tony ross

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 12:33:40 +0000

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: RE: Arent, Symbian netBook Pro, application porting, embedded vs non-embedded etc

To: Rolf Brunstig (and indirectly Scott, Trygve, Itamar and others) RE: Arent, Symbian netBook Pro, application porting, embedded vs non-embedded etc

Good you're back in the forum with full vigour.

>>>God knows how Arent comes to this conclusion - but that's what he writes. Martin countered this by following Arent's 'logical link', but with a twist. Symbian Ltd. doesn't have to fear Microsoft on IP issues as Symbian OS is an embedded operating system. Which means that the above mentioned devices can stay on the market and that new ones can be developed. Martin's statement is also strange, of course. But it's a common tactic in debating to use your opponent's logic to show the fallacy of his/her logic.<<<

Exactly. This was the intent. I apologise if it has confused other readers. I just couldn't help to have some fun with him after all our endless explanations, clarifications and criticism seemingly without any effect.

The following is explanation is given not as a reply to Rolf in particular (who of course knows the difference) but for other readers that might have gotten confused by previous discussions:

- A non-embedded OS is an operating system you can buy on a CD/floppy or download and install with various user options. Examples of OSs are usually non-embedded are MS-DOS, Mac OS, Windows XP, Solaris etc.

- An embedded OS is an OS that is included in the machine and is never really meant to be changed. In the Psion 5mx for instance, you will need hardware surgery if you were to replace the OS. However, due to the need for bug fixes and minor upgrades, it has been increasingly common to put embedded OS in flash memory. In the Psion 5mx Pro and in the netBook, for instance, the OS can be upgraded. But this does *not* mean that the OS is suddenly non-embedded. Instead of an installation procedure, as with Windows, the upgraded OS is flashed into memory as one monolithic 'image'.

Hope this clarifies the main difference. Symbian OS has never existed in any non-embedded version [ well, if you exclude the WINS development environment of course...:-) ].

>>>Microsoft C++ was used as a host application. It saved Psion having to create its own development environment as it could use a wide range of features present in MS-C++. The libraries as well as the compiler were pure Psion, though. You can therefore compare a developer's use of the MS-C++ environment to that of a novelist using MS-Word. The tool is Microsoft's all right, but not what's been created with it.<<<

Absolutely true. The only role that Microsoft has played in the development of Symbian OS is as a tool provider (and perhaps as a warning example in certain aspects like multitasking/multithreading, robustness, resource consumption, UI etc ). The tool provider role could have been played equally well by Borland, GNU etc, and it seems that Symbian is increasingly steering towards these tools rather than MS Visual .NET.

>>>Oh, come on, Martin!! You're responding to a message in which I mentioned that the discussion about the netBook Pro Symbian has been rather technological and developer orientated lately. <<<

If a question requires a technological and developer oriented answer, you can't get around it. We are talking about a proposed machine with a (potentially) Symbian OS v7 flavour that does not exist today. There are equally unknown factors such as: When will OPL be available for it? To what extent and with what effort can the applications developed for other Symbian OS machines run on it? And which application developers would eventually be committed to do it?

It is unreasonable to demand straight yes/no answers to these questions. But by looking at the technological and developer oriented fundamentals, and by looking at existing devices based on the same architecture, I attempt to at least identify the issues and get near the answer.

What I *can* say is what I have repeatedly been saying; that porting applications and data to a proposed netBook Pro Symbian OS would have a very high priority should the netBook Pro Symbian every become a reality, both from an enterprise standpoint as well as a professional consumer standpoint.

>>>And that this form of discussion doesn't answer the questions and concerns of people like Itamar. <<<

No they do not. I am aware of that. We can only try to make intelligent guesses at this juncture.

>>>You've mentioned the Nokia 7700 and 9210 in the paragraphs in which you work out items (1.) to (3.) above. These two Nokias are smartphones, just as the BenQ P30 and Fujitsu FOMA F2051 you've mentioned in a previous message. Working out items (1.) to (3.) you mention UIQ and Nokia's Series 60, 80 and 90 which signals 'smartphone' to people. Finally, the very first thing you mention when working out items (1.) to (3.) is that porting smartphone applications is a trivial matter. It's all smartphone smartphone, smartphone.<<<

You did not get my point. What is the difference between between a 'smartphone application' and a 'netBook Pro application'? Would such a difference, if any, be meaningful for this discussion? No it would not. If Symbian Word is running in Nokia 7700 and an identical Symbian Word is running in the netBook Pro, would we have to refer to the former as a 'smartphone application' but not the latter? A Symbian OS application is a Symbian OS application no matter what machine it runs on. If there are a number of good 'smartphone applications' that can run in the proposed netBook Pro Symbian, the better. What is interesting for the discussion is not whether or not a given application can be considered a smartphone application - whatever that is - but whether or not it would run in the proposed netBook Pro Symbian and whether or not it is an attractive application per se.

I can, however, understand your point about some people being repelled by the very term 'smartphone'. It is certainly not of my own choosing. But it has become the lingo. Symbian used to call them Wireless Information Devices (WIDs) which I thought was a much more appropriate term - a term which incorporated both the phone-side of things and the PDA/computer-side of things.

>>>I appreciate that you'd like to give a complete picture, warts and all. What it doesn't do is to answer questions and concerns people have in a language they can understand. It's all very well to say that the user interface for the netBook Pro Symbian will be a choice between adopting and adapting UIQ or Series 90. That's completely irrelevant to many people as what the user interface will be is something for the developers of the netBook Pro Symbian to decide.<<<

Not at all. It is relevant to compare with existing devices, since it will give a hint of what types of applications that would be available for the proposed netBook Pro Symbian. Both UIQ and in particular Series 90 expose many of the more PDA-like features of Symbian OS. They show that those features where actually never removed from the OS post-Psion but where rather hidden by the limited UI of phones like the E/// R380 and the Nokia 7650.

>>>They're going to use the result of that decision, whether it's UIQ or Series 90. That is, when they can get an answer to the question whether such applications as Macro5, Psion Money or Route Planner become available for the netBook Pro Symbian.<<<

Obviously I cannot answer on behalf of other application developers. There are some who I correspond with frequently and who are very much supporting the netBook Pro Symbian case. I am quite sure that they would port whatever applications they have if they were given a chance to get their hands on a netBook Pro Symbian. But there are numerous others which I am not sure of. If the support is enough for the netBook Pro Symbian to become a reality, we will certainly have to address these matters.

>>>In this light it's counter productive to talk about QuickOffice. When people read that it's a rival to Word and Sheet they can start to think that the netBook Pro Symbian will come with QuickOffice. That they're going to loose two applications that have served them for years and years.<<<

Well, point taken. I think this was in reference to some previous thread where QuickOffice was discussed. This was at a time when there were some disturbing signals coming from Symbian regarding Word and Sheet. In any case, that is history now, since it is perfectly clear that Symbian Word and Sheet are alive and kicking in the very latest version of Symbian OS.

>>>That's the last thing people want to read when they're already worrying about what's going to happen with Macro5.<<<

If the netBook Pro Symbian ever materialises, what we probably would have to do is to set up some online information exchange regarding all these applications. Technical feasibility aside, it is really the buy-in from the authors of those softwares that is the crucial point. As you know, Macro5 for instance, is an OPL application but dependent on an OPX, just like the MbmView we discussed earlier. Therefore, OPL runtime is not enough, the OPX will need to be recompiled etc. I'd hope that an online information exchange would be able to pursuade a number of authors to have a go at it by showing a strong community demand and support. Alternatively, we could persuade authors to publish sourcecodes. In the Macro5 case, the application is Freeware, or 'SmileWare' to use the author's own words.

>>>Specially when you supply them with a convoluted step (a.) to step (f.) method for getting Series 5mx Data files across. What it says is that the move to a netBook Pro Symbian will be a very painful experience for them.<<<

It will be evenmoreso painful when they realise that netBook Pro Symbian doesn't exist...

But seriously, there is really a limit to what can be said about a proposed device. I am trying my best through various technical and developer oriented reasoning to arrive at something of an answer. Building a hypothesis on a hypothesis can perhaps, at best, work for two layers, but not the third. I do not think anyone has an answer.

>>>And then I read the sentence "Many other v5/Eikon applications have already been ported to later Symbian OS versions". My immediate response was a deep groan. I'm sure quite a number of us are already putting a bit of money aside to pay for a successor to their Psion Revo, Ericsson MC218 or Psion Series 7. They've resigned to the idea that their next PDA will be a Windows Mobile or PalmOS device. Some are already thinking about a specific device like an Alphasmart Dana or the new Sony UX50. If there's one thing that will steer them away from PalmOS or Windows Mobile devices it's reading a list of EPOC Release 5 applications that have been ported to Symbian OS 6 or 7. When people see their favourite applications mentioned the worry about loosing them when buying a netBook Pro Symbian will be greatly diminished.<<<

Sure, but that is the truth isn't it? People have been scared away by the notion that "Symbian OS is for phones only" repeated ad nauseam. And then comes the SE P800/P900 and now the Nokia 7700, which are a fully fledged PDAs as well...

>>>And you spend one single sentence on one of the items that interests people the most!! That's an own goal, Martin. Given the number of words you spend on other subjects, you're sending out the signal that porting EPOC Release 5 pplication to the netBook Pro Symbian isn't important at all.<<<

On the contrary, the signal I am sending out is that:

1. Porting important ER5 applications to netBook Pro Symbian is extremely important. The proponents of the netBook Pro Symbian are incorporating this requirement as far as possible. However, some ER5 applications, whose raison d'etre are entirely related to ER5 shortcomings - e.g. nConvert, plBeam, SysBack and the like - are not relevant. Other ER5 applications might have much more powerful replacements in later Symbian OS releases.

2. The effort in doing it is not as large as previously claimed by other commentators, not the least since many ER5 applications have been ported to Symbian OS v7.

3. As an additional benefit, there are many other applications developed for Symbian OS v7 that do not exist for ER5 that could easily be made available for the netBook Pro Symbian. I see this point as extremely important as well. The netBook Pro is a powerful beast with excellent expansion opportunities.

Kind regards

Martin Maxwell

Kuala Lumpur - Malaysia

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 14:31:03 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: refurbisClove!, TomTom's maps, T610 settings, Rolf - nB Pro OS 7,

Answer to: vlad a

Re.: refurbisClove! - Interesting to see that there is such a lively market of Psion machines, also the 3MX appears again at Clove and the Revo + is available for Gbp 150.- + VAT. Maybe that is why recently there is an increase in new members in the digest (welcome to all !).

Answer to: Simon Wolf & Jonathan

Re. TomTom's maps - Well, using TomTom in the car with a GPS you can't beat the S7 / nB screen for size and clarity (see my article in the new Psion magazine how to use it in the car, which by the way I still have not received ?!). Great when using "heads-up" to actually have a large screen to show it.

Answer to: Aleck Cartwright

Re. T610 settings - In the last digest I quoted my modem settings. What else do you need to know ?

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Re. Rolf - nB Pro OS 7 - I understand what you say. However, Psion have been notoriously bad in backward compatibillity. I still use a DOS program from the late 1980's which I got originally on to large floppy disks on my current PC with a Jewish calendar. Secondly, there is always a risk, yes, but as a consumer I think I should try and minimalise that risk according to the information available to me. That means amongst others to evaluate the trust in each Company, product and system.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 14:31:04 +0000

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Psion takeover, Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro,

Answer to: Rolf Brunsting

Re.: Psion takeover - You wrote "and reach the stage that an agreement is imminent". Is that not really the answer ? There might well be discussions between the Companies but at an early stage and therefore both sides wil deny it.

Re. Symbian OS 7 netBook Pro - Ok, I agree with "talk about the amount of work a developer needs to do". Some programs we already know more or less will not be moved to OS7. These include programs that have already been discontinued (Macro5) as well as from Companies that stopped developing these programs (Neuon) or stopped developing for EPOC / Symbian (TomTom). We have in this digest several software authors and I would appreciate to hear from them about whether they would consider to update their programs for OS 7 (either for payment or for free). Anyone ?

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 24 Nov 2003 15:45:55 +0000

From: ian chapple

Subject: Net(Lowe)Book bug?

Rick wrote,

>> I have a NetBook (from David Lowe) that I'm very happy with ... It does, however, have a strange bug. When I type uppercase "CY" into word or jotter it actually writes "CY?"

Martin replied,

>> Well, it's nothing to do with David Lowe since my standard netBook (same

OS build) does exactly the same. I've noticed the same effect before

when typing "NB" (which comes out as "NB~"). Interestingly, both these

only happen if you type the letters very quickly together. If you type

them more slowly, they appear normally. Must be an OS build quirk I

suspect. <<

I have a David Lowe netBook, and am unable to reproduce the problem, no matter how fast I type (with Caps Lock on and off); however, if I press Shift, N & B simultaneously, then I do get NB~. Similarly, if I press Shift, C and Y simultaneously, I get YC?....very weird.