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Epoc Digest      Thu, 11 Sep 2003     Volume 01 : Number 336

************************************************************************

Sent to:  797 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 17 messages:

==============================

- Phone rant - Revo rules!

- Word wrap and Database

- Not Very Clever Programming

- Re: Mystery crash

- Re:  First posting

- RE: Motorola Leaving Symbian

- Re: Netbook operation

- Re: Motorola Leaving Symbian (OT)

- Re: What if - Netbook Pro...

- Re: Emulator installation

- Psion Series 3c

- Re: TubeRoute

- Re:  Different databases on Psion

- Re: email address management

- Re:  How do the list members

- Psion  and T610, This Digest is .....,

- Sony Clie NX73V

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 15:27:34 +0000

From: Carlos Rodriguez

Subject: Phone rant - Revo rules!

I'm in the unfortunate position of having had my company's mobile phone account cancelled, so I now need to go out there and get a phone of my own. Fine. But: all those new phones are useless! Most, by far, have such tiny buttons that I can't use them comfortably. Others, like the Samsungs (which I like, design-wise) won't work with my Revo (I tried the IR in the shop, and there were some postings on the newsgroup comp.sys.psion.comm indicating that Samsungs generally have a problem talking to Psions). Plus, most of the phones now have that hopeless camera-gadget which I don't need, and don't want to pay for.

I live in Germany, and have the choice of 4 operators. My company used to be with Vodafone, and I had no problems connecting with the Nokia 6310i. However, O2 has substantially cheaper rates (especially when calling another mobile network), but no tech support for setting up a connection with my Psion (I dread the thought of having to go through all that configuration business again). The 6310i was fine as far as it went, but a colour screen, polyphonic sounds, and clamshell would be nice...

So what it comes down to, is that my beloved Revo will determine which phone, and which operator I'll end up with.

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 18:10:02 +0000

From: Christopher Holly

Subject: Word wrap and Database

I've started using the standard 5mx database to store case briefs (just started law school). Since I am not expert in whittling down the data in each field to the barest essentials, I chose to make each a memo field. Only problem I am having is that when I print it, the fields don't wrap. I hate to put a bunch of line breaks in. Is there some way to get these fields to wrap when printing. If not, is there a database application that will do this on my 5mx and netBook?

--

Chris Holly

Bloomington, Indiana, USA

Living in the wasteland of the free . . .

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 19:05:39 +0000

From: Andy Hayes

Subject: Not Very Clever Programming

Hi All

Thanks for all of the responses to my programming query, both on and off-list. There is certainly more to it than I had imagined! I will have to grab a large strong coffee and go through them a few times!

I have just tried the Klip application and whilst it is OK, wouldn't it be nice to see what is under the buttons a la Office2K etc. so you know what you are about to paste in. I wonder what Chris Handley's Clipboard History program will be like! Don't answer the question Chris, just get on with writing it <BG>!

Andy Hayes

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 19:26:33 +0000

From: Jack

Subject: Re: Mystery crash

To: ealasaidandsimon

who both suffer from

>>>A mystery affliction has gripped our 2 psions at the same time, my 5mx and my wife's netbook. Both have taken to completely freezing whilst connected to the internet...<<<

Re: Same intriguing affliction stroke since 2 weeks some of my psionnists friends while and every time they try to download emails or web pages.

It took me some hard time to understand that :

    It happened only with a specific ISProvider and only with ER5 machines.

Might be some kind of new antivirus ISP procedure that our beloved machines dislike.

So nowadays, even psion don't liberates us from (anti)viruses ;-)

Jack

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 19:27:38 +0000

From: Owen H. Morgan

Subject: Re:  First posting

Howdy!

Malcolm wrote (> ):

> My 5MX has just gone back to POS for a screen

> cable repair for the second time in 18 months. The

> first failure was in Feb '02 and after that I

> decided to

> open and close it much less in order to reduce the

> flexing on the cable.

<SNIP>

> I expressed my disappointment to POS at the unit

> failing again so quickly and described my daily

> usage. "Ahhh" they said, "You don't want to do

> that - it

> can cause the screen cable to harden and then

> break".

In a word: BULLSHIT!

Just my €0.02 worth. Last winter I bought a low mileage second hand 5mx, and the main reason I bought it was that there would still be plenty of life left in the cable. My experience is that they fail in around 18 months with my fairly heavy use.

Owen

Thought for the day:

I think, therefore I am. I think.

--

Owen H. Morgan, Yacht "Naomi J.", LD-942°07.33'N 8°50.54'W

Bayona, Spain

http://home.no.net/naomij

Phone and SMS:

In Spain: +34 620520079

In Norway: +47 92053097

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 20:47:24 +0000

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: RE: Motorola Leaving Symbian

Subject: RE: Motorola Leaving Symbian

Reply to: Wong Koi Hin

>>>I would be quite happy if they just open up the licensing to everyone! Of course Japan does have a representation of sorts through Sony in Sony Ericsson. ;) China (PRC) has many up and coming mobile phone companies as well which are doing well in the mainland. It will be a big boon to them if they could use Symbian in their handsets.<<<

Apart from Sony, via Sony Ericsson,  Matsushita/Panasonic is already a substantial shareholder in Symbian. Samsung has a smaller holding. But they total up to less than 20%. Yes I agree, if China (PRC) could get in somehow it would be great, but I am afraid they are totally locked in on Linux at the moment. But they will discover that Linux is not the silver bullet in all situations - server, desktop, embedded, phone... - against the Vole as they think. Anyhow, I guess the near term hopes are more for the current licencees like Samsung, Sanyo, Fujitsu or BenQ. But with the Hutchinson sponsored Motorola A920 in mind, perhaps people like LG, Kyocera and even NEC might get interested. The latter has had a number of problems with their attempted Microsoft smartphone developments and several models have been either withdrawn or seriously delayed.

Greetings

Martin Maxwell

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 21:26:53 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Netbook operation

Dear Philip,

<< I, like Thomas, have checked my applications to see if one prevents the netbook from switching off automatically.  None seem to do so >>

They may not do it at the moment and may never do it again. But there's the possibility that one of the applications has a bug in it that's triggered by a very rare condition or combination of conditions. One that results in the application entering an infinite loop it can't escape from, preventing the automatic shut off to do its job. Trouble is that it's very difficult to prove that you're dealing with such a bug.

--

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 21:27:01 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: Motorola Leaving Symbian (OT)

Dear Koi Hin,

<< I think there is nothing inherently wrong in having one company have a larger share in Symbian, as long as they cannot make decisions unilaterally >>

Depends on what you mean by 'unilateral decisions'. The fact that Symbian is a joint-venture doesn't imply that the partners have to cooperate and/or collaborate on everything that has to do with Symbian OS based devices. Each partner can propose a feature for inclusion in Symbian OS. The other partners will judge the proposal and vote on it. When the proposal is voted down it means the feature won't be a *standard* Symbian OS feature. Which doesn't prevent the partner who made the proposal from developing the feature itself. Could be that one of the other partners considers it a very good feature as well and that the two decide to develop it together.

The 32% share Nokia will have when the Motorola sale goes through gives it a stronger voice. It will also make it easier for Nokia to get its proposals accepted. Which doesn't mean that Nokia is now in control of Symbian as there's another partner that has an equal share, Psion, with 31%. What's more, Psion isn't in direct competition with Nokia nor with the other Symbian partners. This gives Psion the freedom to judge Nokia's proposals on their merits. Psion's 31% stake has a high arbitration value.

<< What I personally like to see is Symbian exploring the avenue of having their OS on PDAs/communicator devices rather than concentrate solely on smartphones >>

The Q2 2003 worldwide PDA sales figures from Gartner Market Research indicates that PalmOS has a 51.4% market share, Pocket PC a 35.9% market share and 'Others' a 12.7% market share. Which effectively means that you're asking Symbian to fight a rearguard action as the market for PDA operating systems has already been carved up by PalmSource and Microsoft.

<< The OS is fully able to fulfill this role ... >>

That's beside the point. It doesn't make much sense for Symbian to spend a lot of time and effort into the licensing of Symbian OS to PDA vendors. The top five vendors (Palm, Hewlett Packard, Sony, Dell and Toshiba) with a combined market share of 78.1% are well and truly committed to the operating systems they're using. While the remaining 21.9% of the market is formed by a long list of vendors : Acer, Sharp, NEC, ViewSonic, Audiovox, Asus, Fujitsu/Siemens, Medion, Casio, Mitac, Packard Bell, Zayo ... etc.

<< The P800 is a good example of a full featured PDA, if you take away the phone capabilities >>

The P800 is actually a very good example why Symbian shouldn't spend any effort on the PDA market. SonyEricsson sold more P800 smartphones in the second quarter of this year than Dell sold Axim PDAs. And Dell is the world's no.4 PDA vendor. Note that PDA sales are down compared to the second quarter of last year but also down compared to the first quarter of this year. While smartphone sales are up 330% compared to Q2 2002 and 12% up compared to Q1 2003. Also note that the rise in smartphone sales is very much larger than the slump in PDA sales.

Now, that PDA sales are down is generally attributed to the economy, which is going through a bad period. Companies don't buy new PDAs, their employees will have to battle on with last year's model. Which doesn't explain the very sharp rise in smartphone sales. It indicates that smartphones attract people who aren't into PDAs - a new market. And it wouldn't surprise me when part of the PDA sales slump can be attributed to people throwing away their PDAs and mobile phones and buying a smartphone. Out goes the Dell Axim and SonyEricsson T68 - in comes the SonyEricsson P800.

<< Could they be worried PDA manufacturers are going to muscle in on the lucrative mobile phone market? >>

They're already doing that. Witness the Palm Tungsten W - Hewlett Packard Jornada 928 - Handspring Treo 180, Treo 270, Treo 300 and Treo 600 - Hitachi G1000 - Samsung i300, i330 and i700 - etc. There's a general  trend towards 'mobile devices'. That is, devices that combine PDA functionality with one or more forms of wireless data exchange. The type of mobile device you create as a manufacturer depends on your starting point. PDA manufacturer Palm added a mobile phone and keyboard to create the Tungsten W. SonyEricsson added a PDA to a mobile phone and came up with the P800. RIM's Blackberry mobile device used a dedicated (North American) wireless data network. As this network wasn't available elsewhere it created a model with a GSM/GPRS phone in it.

<< Also, Symbian does not seem to be particularly active in promoting the licensing of its OS beyond the investors, which I thought would be one of its primary goals >>

Assuming that the Motorola share sale goes through it results in Symbian having Psion, Nokia, SonyEricsson, Matsushita, Siemens and Samsung as shareholders and Motorola, Sendo, Fujitsu, Sagem, Benq and Quanta as licensees. Please note that the latter group of companies are the *known* licensees. It's very well possible that Symbian has one or two additional licensees who prefer to remain anonymous until their products are announced.

<< There are strong contenders for mobile phones in Asia besides the usual suspects and they can be given a great boost in their global competitiveness if they can use a common platform like Symbian >>

Symbian's geographical division is as follows:

Europe

- Nokia : Finland

- Sagem : France

- Sendo : United Kingdom

- Siemens : Germany

North America

- Motorola : United States of America

Asia

- Benq : Taiwan

- Fujitsu : Japan

- Matsushita : Japan

- Quanta : Taiwan

- Samsung : South Korea

Which leaves SonyEricsson, a Japanese/Swedish joint-venture. I'm inclined to place SonyEricsson in Asia because its models are much more in the Sony style than they are in the Ericsson style. A P800 in the Ericsson style would have been a more sober, understated type of device.

It's now time to make up the scores ... and Asia wins by 6 points, followed by Europe with 4 and North America with 1.

<< Or is this a case where the big boys only want Symbian for themselves, a kind of technological and branding edge? >>

Oh, dear ... we're going down into the shady and murky depths of The Conspiracy Theory. I think that the above list of partners and licensees makes it clear that Symbian OS will be used by big companies operating globally as well as medium to small sized companies operating regionally or locally. The list also makes it clear that a 'big boy' like Nokia doesn't exclude other 'big boys' like Siemens and Samsung from using Symbian OS. Fact is that Siemens and Samsung both licensed Nokia's Series 60 platform. The Siemens SX1 and Samsung SGH-D700 will battle it out on the marketplace with Nokia's own 6600.

<< If this be true then Symbian may eventually lose market share through the reversal of fortune of the current heavyweights >>

Which is an integral part of being a software supplier, whether your name is Symbian, Microsoft or PalmSource. Your success depends on the way your customers apply your software into their products.

<< I personally believe in order to maximise their chances they have to seriously look into promoting their licensing outside of the consortium ... >>

You can be sure that Symbian is having discussions with a wide range of companies. Thing is that you'll always win some, lose some while other remain prospects forever.

--

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 10 Sep 2003 21:27:22 +0000

From: Rolf Brunsting

Subject: Re: What if - Netbook Pro...

Dear David,

<< What if someone was to order 500 NetBook Pros from Psion Teklogix and asked that those devices were delivered running Symbian OS version 5? PT are after the corporate market, which means that they deal in large numbers >>

That Psion Teklogix sells equipment in bulk (4,000 netBooks to Swiss Federal Railways) doesn't mean that it will sell any device when it can get a large order for it. The 500 units you mention isn't sufficient. Not because 500 is too low a number (Psion Teklogix could have sold 500 units itself - no sweat). It's because Psion Teklogix has decided that the netBook Pro will run ce.NET. What you're asking for isn't in Psion Teklogix' sales catalogue - it's a potential 'customer special'.

High chance that the answer you'll get is : "We don't do such a model, Sir, but can we interest in...". An answer in which Psion Teklogix attempts to direct you towards the current netBook, mentioning the ce.NET based netBook Pro as an alternative. In other words, Psion Teklogix will attempt to sell you one of its standard products. As that's not what you want you'll restate your request.

What's bound to happen next is that you'll be contacted by Psion Teklogix as it will want to know:

a) What your going to use the 500 units for,

and,

b) Why you think a netBook Pro running Symbian OS 5 will be the solution,

... and that in as much detail as possible. Psion Teklogix will also point out some of the hidden snags and pitfalls. Like the USB port of the netBook Pro being non-functional as Symbian OS 5 doesn't support USB. Does the customer accept that the USB port won't function? The same question applies to the optional Bluetooth module, ditto for ... etc.. Another question - will it be acceptable that the existing hardware related OPXs A, B and C won't function and crash the system? I'm afraid you'll need to prepare a very good story to convince Psion Teklogix that the customer's demands can only be met by manufacturing 500 netBooks running Symbian OS 5.

The next move will be Psion Teklogix'. Having heard your story it can decide to follow the decision made earlier - the netBook Pro runs Windows ce.NET - and decline your request. It can also look for an alternative offer that easier and less costly to implement. Now, there's a small folding infrared keyboard on the market that's supplied with drivers for Pocket PC and PalmOS devices. Psion Teklogix can decide to develop a Symbian OS 5 driver for it and propose the alternative of 500 netPads running Symbian OS 5 complete with this infrared keyboard as its final offer. When hat's not acceptable - no deal.

Third option is that Psion Teklogix will perform a cost analysis, looking at such aspects as:

01) Required Symbian OS 5 modifications, test plans and final acceptance testing,

02) Special parts/components reservations,

03) Revised manufacturing instructions, test plans and in-factory acceptance testing,

04) Special manufacturing track reservations,

05) Symbian OS licensing,

06) Possible third-party software licensing,

07) CE and FCC certification,

08) Customer documentation (manual, quick-help chart, etc.),

09) Warranty and repairs,

10) Special reservations and/or training for technical support,

11) Possible repeat orders.

The analysis will result is a cost price to which (say) 15% is added for eventualities, is divided by 500, added to the netBook Pro hardware price and quoted to you as ex-factory unit price. It's a 'customer special' meaning that the customer pays. Question then is ... will you buy the 500 at that price?

<< The petition may not work but buying power always talks loudly! >>

Well ... why don't you put your money (buying power) where your mouth is? License the netBook Pro hardware - license Symbian OS 7 - pay Symbian for the modifications needed to run Symbian OS 7 on the netBook Pro - find a co-maker to manufacture it - put the resulting device on the market.

Companies aren't prostitutes in that they will do what you want them to do when you wave with a wad of $1,000.= bills.

--

Kind Regards,

Rolf Brunsting - Darp - Netherlands

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Sep 2003 06:29:04 +0000

From: Marcus von Cube

Subject: Re: Emulator installation

Malcom,

>"An error occurred during the move data process: -113 >Component OPL SDK

>File Group: OPL SDK

>File: C:\EMULATOR\aleppo\projdir\AleppoHelp.alp"

>

>A similar message occurs when I try to install the Java PC emulator.

You can just unzip the SDK to a directory of your choice (and then SUBST it to a drive letter to make the SDK happy). The installation routine does nothing more than that.

Marcus

http://www.mvcsys.de

*++++++++++&

Date: 11 Sep 2003 08:40:38 +0000

From: Martin Hofer

Subject: Psion Series 3c

A little bit off topic, but I am sure that somebody on this very helpful list could help me, please directly to my email, its not really ER5 stuff...