Epocdigest V1 # 362

------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------

Tips for Posting to the Digest and how to unsubscribe

at the end of the Digest

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Epoc Digest Tue, 14 Oct 2003 Volume 01 : Number 362

************************************************************************

Sent to: 801 subscribers

In today's Epoc Digest 21 messages:

==============================

- Re: netBook Pro Symbian

- Backing up 5mx ?

- Java on Psion

- Backing up 5mx

- Re: VPN client?

- Re: Backing up 5mx ?

- Hanging Psion

- mystery crashes

- 5 Series - USB synch cable?

- Dana + Treo Update

- Re: Scotland

- PC/Psion Problem

- IconPatcher updated

- WiFi article at FoxPop

- Revo again, New Forum???, Psion fall short,

- Re : Microsoft (#359) / CF card backups (#361)

- Re: Java on netBook or 5mx

- ir transfer to nokia phone

- Re: WhyFi?

- Re: Mac OS

- Don't give up on your psion

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 04:34:44 -0500

From: Martin Maxwell

Subject: Re: netBook Pro Symbian

Answer to: Itamar

Subject: netBook Pro Symbian

>>> I don't think the public at large cares much whether a netBook Pro

>>> works with WindowsCE or Symbian 7 (or 5<<<

I beg to differ. I think they care a lot. The response that has been shows they care a lot. Journalists in mobile publications would not write about the petition if they did not care a lot. The close to 2000 signed to date show they care a lot.

>>> and without tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of

>>> signatures you don't stand a chance to convince anyone at Psion. <<<

We know exactly what the critical volume is. It is tough but not unachievable.

>>>Even if the current version 7 works with most of the hardware, it

>>>will still need to be adapted to fully work with it and that will

>>>cost far more in development, software writing, testing, etc. than

>>>they would ever make on selling a few thousand pieces. <<<

No, not if you do it smartly and leverage to the maximum on ongoing smartphone development.

>>>Besides, who would be interested in such a machine at the current

>>>price level of the nB Pro ? <<<

It is perfectly clear that nB Pro can never be a mass market device.

>>>You can get "all singing all dancing" machines for about half that

>>>price I believe. <<<

Professionals, and the anticipated netBook Pro Symbian market, are not interested in machines that "sing and dance". They are interested in machines that *work*.

>>>I also don't think there is a "sound business case" for such a

>>>machine. For most businesses the dcompatibillity between Windows and

>>>WindowsCE is a distinct advantage and without a rewritten Psiwin

>>>giving such a compatibillity with Symbian OS the case is very

>>>weak.<<<

Yes, but what about the increasing number of businesses that do not want Windows? And what about the growing number of enterprise vendors that don't want to have anything Microsoft in their offerings? And BTW, *PsiWin* for Symbian OS 7 already exists w th Serial, IrDA, Bluetooth and USB options. There is no need to rewrite anything.

cheers

Martin Maxwell

Singapore

Subject: netBook Pro Symbian...

Answer to David Steer and Rolf Brunstig

Both of your points regarding upgrade path from ER5 and *business as usual* are very valid.

When Symbian moved from ASCII to Unicode between Symbian OS v5.0 (ER5) and v5.1 ( ER5u) they built a tall fence. You have to decide on which side of the fence you wish to be. Either you are on the ASCII side, and your compatibility in terms of fileform ts and applications will be almost exclusively with legacy ER1 to ER5 machines. Or you are on the Unicode side, which means that you have excellent compatibility with file formats used in Symbian smartphones. Very few formats cut across the fence, the Mbm multi-bitmap format being one of the few that has stayed unchanged from ER1 to ER7 simply because it does not contain any text. Even more important than file formats, applications are in Unicode build from Symbian OS v6 and onwards.

In the petition, it is clearly stated that the alternative one is moving to Symbian OS7. Overall, the petition is referring to Symbian OS, which is usually connoted with Symbian OS v6/ER6 and later. If it had mainly been referring to ER5/Eikon, it woul have said so. We decided, however, to continue exploring the ER5/Eikon option as well so it is mentioned in the some of the other alternatives. However, few of those who have signed actually makes any reference to ER5 or Eikon.

I personally believe that compatibility and commonality with smartphones is more important for netBook Pro Symbian than backwards compatibility with ER5. It is also the only way that the cost of developing netBook Pro Symbian can be justified. I believ there *is* as solid business case for it, in particularly in the enterprise market.

That is not saying that ER5 is not important. But, due to the hardware of the netBook Pro, I the ER5 option is virtually ruled out. netBook Pro is a completely different machine internally to netBook Pro Classic. The question is to what extent compiled C++ code would run on the new chipset? Would MbmView.opx run for instance? Despite some lineage between ARM9->StrongARM->XScale, I'm not sure it even will. This means that applications, DLLs (including OPXs), except perhaps for the Java and OPL appl cations themselves, will need to be recompiled anyway. Then we have the different screen, absence of silkscreen buttons, 32-bit internal bus, different colour depth and richer expansion options. When you bring in all these factors, I am sure that Tom Tom nd the like sees a much better prospect of porting to Symbian OS 7 and leveraging on the proposed very close commonality between UIQ and the netBook Pro Symbian user interface.

So I am afraid that no matter how much we want ER5 running on netBook Pro it might not even be in the cards due to technical infeasibility. It might even be more feasible to develop an ER5 emulator in OS7, a kind of 'WINS' for Symbian.

For those who are solely looking just for a new platform for running ER5 application, I do not think netBook Pro can ever become the right hardware platform. It is simply 'overspecced' and not designed for it. Instead one should look at building a mach ne specifically for ER5, perhaps an upgraded 5mx (as was rumoured for a while) or a licence manufacturing of the netBook Classic.

I believe that the netBook Classic is the PERFECT machine for ER5. I do not think there will ever be anyone better. So instead, if David wish to place bulk orders for ER5 machines, he will get a much better deal - and even something that works - if he ather looks at an the existing netBook Classic. Perhaps with some backing in terms of volumes, elements of netBook Pro could - just speculating here - be fitted as upgrades to netBook Classic, e.g. increased battery life, SD port, new casing so that the s ylo doesn't get blocked etc.

>>>Believe it or not, someone somewhere wrote that they though that the

>>>Current Psions were stone age compared to the current offerings!!<<<

It is amazing how often I find totally the opposite.

cheers

Martin Maxwell

Singapore

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 09:16:54 -0500

From: Chris S Handley

Subject: Backing up 5mx ?

Hi Paul,

I missed the last few digests, and so may have misunderstood you, but...

> Jim Thomson (No. 355) suggests using a CF card reader to back up a

> 5mx. I back up and convert from the Psion (PC runs

> How can I use a CF card reader? Doesn't that mean I first

> have to transfer Psion files from C: drive to the card?

Yup. And that can be VERY quickly done for most Psions.

> It must still use PsiWin, so why is it faster?

Why do you need PsiWin to backup a CF that Windows can directly read using a CF card reader?

If you feel you must use PsiWin, then AFAIK you can't use the CF card reader. So you have to choose between a slow PsiWin backup, or a fast CF card reader backup.

Personally, I can't see any reason to use PsiWin, but maybe thats because I've never used it! :-)

---

Chris Handley

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 10:01:21 -0500

From: ian chapple

Subject: Java on Psion

Christopher,

>> Could anyone enlighten me (and perhaps others) about the pros and

>> cons and whys and hows of running Java programs on a netBook or 5mx?

>> I know the Marcus's SMTPAuth uses Java and works great. If we have

>> some kind of Java engine running can we use any Java program on the

>> netBook or does it still have to be written specifically to run on

>> the Psion? <<

I recently downloaded a Java media player, written by Sun I believe, after I read about it at PsionPlace. As far as I am aware, no modification had been made to make it run on the Psion. It actually works quite well, so you can even play Quicktime and PEG video, though you're a bit limited by the memory available on the Psion. Whether this means that all Java programs will run on the Psion, I'm not sure.

Hope this helps, Ian.

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 10:01:22 -0500

From: ian chapple

Subject: Backing up 5mx

Paul,

>> Jim Thomson (No. 355) suggests using a CF card reader to back up a

>> 5mx. I back up and convert from the Psion (PC runs WinXP) with a

>> serial-USB cable and it's much slower than it used to be when I had

>> Win-98 and a serial port on the PC.

How can I use a CF card reader? Doesn't that mean I first have to transfer Psion files from C: drive to the card? It must still use PsiWin, so why is it faster? <<

I gave up backing-up my Psion using PsiWin, when I got my netbook, as it became unreliable and slow. I now backup my 5mx to my netbook (only some strategic files Agenda, Contacts etc.), then backup my netbook C: drive to a CF card. The contents of this card can then be copied to the PC using a card-reader, without using PsiWin at all. You'll only need PsiWin if you want to convert your files. This is not an incremental backup as you normally get with PsiWin, but it's so quick that it's hardly a problem. /p>

Cheers, Ian.

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 14:09:17 -0500

From: Michael Degn

Subject: Re: VPN client?

Answer to Christopher Holly

> Is there a Virtual Private Network client that works on the netBook? <

Dear Chris,

The Swedish company AppGate Network Security AB have made a Java-based VPN solution that runs on netBook/netpad. Read more at: http://www.appgate.com/newspublications/archive/n0301142.htm

Good luck

Best regards,

Michael Degn

Esbjerg, Denmark

www.degn.esenet.dk

www.pdanmark.dk

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 14:34:31 -0500

From: Michael Degn

Subject: Re: Backing up 5mx ?

Answer to Paul Bishop

> How can I use a CF card reader? Doesn't that mean I first have to transfer Psion files from C: drive to the card? It must still use PsiWin, so why is it faster? <

Dear Paul,

If you decide to use a CF card reader you'll of course need to backup your C: drive to the CF card, but that only takes a few moments. You won't need PsiWin except for conversion purposes, that's why it's much faster.

Best regards,

Michael Degn

Esbjerg, Denmark

www.degn.esenet.dk

www.pdanmark.dk

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 15:20:10 -0500

From: Nigel Elbourne

Subject: Hanging Psion

Hi all,

I have recently returned from a spell away from home. Repeated attempts to access emails and the web via my 5mx and IR mobile phone resulted in the 5mx hanging necessitating a soft reset. This has never happened before to me, and I remembered that othe s had recently reported a similar problem.

My only suggestion is that I had left my PC online at home for the sake of the family - taking advantage of a recent ADSL connection. Could this be the problem? Is my Mailbox "in use" because of the "always on" broadband connection? What do people thin ? Or what other reasons could there be? [I have recently upgraded to PsiWin 3.3 - the only other change in my circumstances].

Like Itamar, I access my [3] ISPs via mail.com to preserve a memorable email address, but that has never caused a problem before.

Any suggestions valued!

Nigel Elbourne

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 16:57:07 -0500

From: Anthony Napier

Subject: mystery crashes

Hi all

Has any progress been made in the understanding of this vexatious problem? I had had so much trouble that I had almost come to the point of giving up on e mail, I could not pick up messages without crashing repeatedly during a session, each one necessi ating a reset. A week ago I switched to a new isp (doctors.org) in in place of which.net and touch wood have been OK since. By mistake I retained my original POP3 server (mail.which.net) for incoming mail and still seem to pick messages to my& bsp; original e mail address. I have no idea how all these things work, However I am still keeping my fingers crossed. Tony

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 18:19:51 -0500

From: "Chris Dickson"

Subject: 5 Series - USB synch cable?

Hello,

Having recently re-started school, I dug out my old 5 series for lectures and note-taking. Unfortunately there is no 9-pin COM port on the laptop I need to synchronise with. I tried a 9-pin/25-pin adaptor, but the connection doesn't give me the option of choosing this LPT port on the laptop.

The laptop has a couple of USB ports, can I use these and where can I get a lead that would fit? I saw something about this in no. 355 but couldn't quite understand if I need a CF card reader.

All comments gratefully received,

Thanks

Chris

*++++++++++&

Date: 12 Oct 2003 21:00:00 -0500

From: Jim Watson-Gove

Subject: Dana + Treo Update

After several months of playing around with my Dana and my Treo 90, I can say for myself, Palm OS is the answer to the "is there life after Psion" question.

Now that I know what I know about Palm OS, thumboards and full sized keyboards on the Dana, I would do it different. I would buy the top of the line Palm without telephone and with thumboard and instead of the Dana would buy a seperate keyboard.& bsp; I find the thumboard on the Treo adequate for casual use (I'm writing this on the Treo as my wife drives) and would use the keyboard for serious writing. The lit color screen (IMO) is actually as usuable as Dana's larger screen.

Jim Watson-Gove

Port Townsend, Washington

Sent with SnapperMail

from a Treo 90

www.snappermail.com

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 00:47:10 -0500

From: Daniele Squarci

Subject: Re: Scotland

Tim Wiliams wrote: >>Hey, Rolf, you got through St Andrews fast. It took me five years and I had to sit exams at the end.<<

Four years + exams for me. Rolf certainly got through faster than either of us :-))

Ciao

Daniele Squarci - Italy (but St. A. 78-82)

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 03:30:04 -0500

From: Jim Cooke

Subject: PC/Psion Problem

> Date: 4 Oct 2003 23:03:34 -0500

> From: Nicholas Bloch

> Subject: PC doesn't recognise my 5mx

> Hi all,

> First time I've used this service. Have owned a 3c for years

> and at Christmas 2002, treated myself to (as I found out

> later) the last new 5mx in Northern Ireland.

> I have a MAJOR problem that I do not know how to solve! About 6

> months ago I upgraded from Windows 98SE to XP Professional and bought

> from Expansys the latest version of PsiWin 2.3.3. Up until then, my PC

> detected both my 5mx and 3c and I was able to both backup and download

> files whenever I wanted to. Moreover CopyAnywhere started EVERYTIME I

> switched on my PC with the 5mx connected. My PC usually

> detected the 5mx whenever I switched on my PC - although it

> was haphazard at times. Now when I connect my 5mx, not only

> does my computer not detect the 5mx, but also the Copy

> Anywhere icon is not displayed in the task bar, even though

> the "Other Options" settings in "My Psion Properties" has

> been ticked for "CopyAnywhere at Connection" and "Synchronize

> PC and Psion clocks at Connection". You should know that I

> cannot connect my Psion 5mx directly to a free serial port,

> because both are being used for other key devices: One (COM

> 2) for an APC SMART-UPS monitoring software and COM 1, for

> an external USR Professional Message Modem. <SNIP>

Nicolas,

I'm assuming you gave a desktop PC. There are many known problems with USB to Serial converters under XP not recognizing the Psion. If you have a laptop, you're stuck trying to find one that works. With a desktop, you have an easy and cheap solution. G out and get an extra serial card. I can get one for about $15 in the US. Install that and use it for your Psions. You won't have any more problems since PsiWin 2.3.3 works perfectly with XP and a separate serial card obviates the problem of serial port c nflicts.

> Also, connecting my 3c to my HP Photosmart 1218 printer works

> brilliantly when printing word documents, but the 5mx acts

> very strangely! The type face is very small and I often get

> over printing. Are there any new printer drivers to fix this

> problem? Please help!!

Don't know for sure here but I suspect that you also need to get the latest XP drivers for your printer. That's the usual cause of print problems after upgrading to XP.

Regards, Jim

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 09:36:45 -0500

From: Martin Guthrie

Subject: IconPatcher updated

Dear All,

FYI IconPatcher has been updated to v1.10. What is IconPatcher?:-

IconPatcher is a small program designed to easily let you replace the program icon for older or no-longer maintained applications with a colour one - mainly so that they'll look prettier on a colour ER5 machine such as a Series 7, netBook, or netPad. W ilst it's intended mainly for use mainly on colour machines, the program will work perfectly well (albeit in greyscale) on other ER5 machines such as the 5mx, MC218, etc.

What do the updates do?:-

• Plug-in from Edo Vucurovic added. This plug-in is called 'CaptionPatcher' and allows you to change the name/title of your programs as well as their icons.

• Help file extended considerably to make understanding how to use IconPatcher easier.

Available at www.pscience5.net and www.freepoc.org .

Best regards,

Martin Guthrie

—————————

www.pscience5.net

www.freepoc.org

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 09:40:10 -0500

From: Martin Guthrie

Subject: WiFi article at FoxPop

Dear All,

A little while ago, I promised a WiFi-on-netBook article on FoxPop. The 1st section of this has now been published at http://www.foxpop.co.uk/wifi/wifi_09.htm for anyone that's interested. More next month.

Best regards,

Martin Guthrie

—————————

www.pscience5.net

www.freepoc.org

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 14:48:41 -0500

From: Itamar Engelsman

Subject: Revo again, New Forum???, Psion fall short,

Answer to: Ian Chapple

Re.: Revo again - Ian, Rolf _does_ own a REVO as he described his pattern of loading the battery which was discussed in this digest .... !!

In general, I would like to remind the subscribers to refrain from personal attacks in this digest and keep to the issues only.

Answer to: Jim Watson-Gove & Kevin Thorne

Re. New Forum??? - Don't worry, no-one thought about closing down the digest. As long as there are messages and Psions around the digest will continue. A thought is to start in future a new digest for other machines, or indeed let this digest evolve in o a more open digest for various platforms, but it is too early to do anything. Yes, there is a leniency towards describing other machines by Psion users (including myself) but in particular how 1/ these machines can and/or cannot replace our Psions and 2 how they can live side by side and succeed in transfering data between them (but speaking here for myself only without prior consultation of the Digest Team).

Answer to: Kevin Thorne

Re. Psion fall short - Not easy to define. Surfing the web is certainly one example. I think the limited colours and screen are insufficient to show quality photos. A lot of new machines have MP3 capabillities which the Psions have only rudimentary wit 3rd party software. I suppose the processors will continue to get faster and faster, leaving the Psions behind in speed. I suppose compatibillity with current and future systems will become a problem too.

Best regards,

Itamar Engelsman

London, UK

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 16:20:17 -0500

From: jgthomson

Subject: Re : Microsoft (#359) / CF card backups (#361)

Re : Microsoft (#359). I am glad to see that my comments on Microsoft riled someone and

dragged up a reply (Rolf Brunsting) to my note targeted at Itamar (#355 - but I addressed him

wrongly - apologies). I did not say that Microsoft were the only copycats Rolf. I know there

have been lots of them, but I do think that Microsoft are damned good at it. I find that in poor

taste and wish they had stuck to the OS side of things. If they concentrated on providing a good

core system and nothing else then we would perhaps have a good reason to love them.

Companies who build/built heavier powered machines have always been able to do it, winning

universal support from users - eg: DEC with VMS. And there were plenty of hardware and

software developers keen to give added value to these machines.

MS has helped provide cheap computing to the masses. I'll grant you that, but I can't go much

further than that. The man is just too greedy.

On a lighter note, how do you manage to get around so much in the one day? You seem to write

umpteen answers to digest subscribers from so many different locations, and in the one day. Or

are you just on the run from someone? Keep writing though. I enjoy the read and always learn

from what others have to say.

Re : CF card backup - Paul Bishop. (#361).

Hi Paul,

Yes you do have to copy or save your files from your internal 'C' drive to a CF card on the 5Mx

'D' drive - a simple enough task which does not take you near the PC. Then you simply fire the

CF card into a card reader tied to your PC and copy the files you need to save to the hard disc on

the PC. This operation does not need PSIWin. I have a multiformat card reader/writer drive

which cost me £13 and has a USB interface. It is infinitely faster than using PSIWin and a

serial cable.

Regards,

Jim Thomson.

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 17:47:03 -0500

From: Marcus von Cube

Subject: Re: Java on netBook or 5mx

Hi Chris,

>Could anyone enlighten me (and perhaps others) about the pros and cons

>and whys and hows of running Java programs on a netBook or 5mx?

For me it is a matter of being used to a programming environment or not. Java is my main business, so that's why I'm writing Java software.

>I know the Marcus's SMTPAuth uses Java and works great.

Thanks!

>If we have some kind of Java engine running can we use any Java program

>on the netBook or does it still have to be written specifically to run

>on the Psion?

Yes and no! There is a good book about the subject, "Wireless Java for Symbian Devices" by Jonathan Allin (Wiley, 2001); the same Jonathan Allin who wrote the respective chapter 23 in "Professional Symbian Programming" by Martin Tasker (Wrox, 2000). He is one of the Symbian team members who ported Java to EPOC. The books were a profound base for my own

knowledge in that respect.

You can run arbitrary Java software on your nB or 5mx if "a few" circumstances are met:

1) the software must be written to the 1.1 API, not the more recent Java 2 specification;

2) it must fit the machine (memory and screen size);

3) it should not depend on actions like right mouse clicks which are not available on a touch screen.

If you write the software yourself, you can comply to the restrictions but chances are high that existing software was written with PCs running Java 2 (JDK 1.3 or higher) on a PC like system in mind and will not work on EPOC R5.

Even if a programm does run on your device that does not mean it does take advantage of its capabilities. You will not see the common toolbars, the menus will be different, and the icons on the left side of the screen will not work.

What can be done (and I did) is writing Java software with EPOC or other small devices in mind. So I designed the GUI in a way that resembles an EICON application, I added a special (C++) library to access some features of EPOC not available in the sta dard APIs (or broken by the implementation!). It was done in way *not to break compatibility* with standard Java. Thus SmtpAuth still runs fine on my PC (with OS/2, not Windoze!). The effort is considerable.

I've plans to extend the capabilties of both SmtpAuth and the EpocUtil library I created but that will take some (spare) time. Eventually even more software may be born (e. g. an LPR client.)

Marcus

http://www.mvcsys.de

*++++++++++&

Date: 13 Oct 2003 21:28:26 -0500

From: Hoffman, Susan

Subject: ir transfer to nokia phone

OK, I've been ir'ing appointments to my nokia 6610 from my 5mx. It works almost fine. The only problem is that they show up on the phone as 5 hours too early. The phone time setting is the same as the 5mx time setting. What's going on?

Susan Katz Hoffman

Pepper Hamilton LLP--------------

e-mail: hoffmans

web address: www.pepperlaw.com

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Oct 2003 00:05:57 -0500

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: WhyFi?

Jaan Sass wrote:-

<< I found it on the psion top 50 software site. >>

What's the URL Jaan?

Alan

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Oct 2003 00:06:06 -0500

From: Alan Morris

Subject: Re: Mac OS

ian chapple wrote:-

<< When you say pinched, do you mean that Apple stole the idea? I was under the impression that Xerox actually sold the idea to Apple, because they didn't think there was any money in it?! >>

Ian, I never heard anything about Apple buying the idea at the time, only numerous comments in trade journals about MS pinching from Apple who pinched it from Xerox. But I've no firm truth in any version. It's unlikely that Xerox got any pa ment, but a quiet sale my have taken place. Who knows!

Alan.

*++++++++++&

Date: 14 Oct 2003 00:29:37 -0500

From: Scott Lloyd

Subject: Don't give up on your psion

I response to "where does your Passion fall short" I just wanted to add my two cents. My netbook is the best machine I own. I can count on it day after day, the Epoc operating system is, next to unix the best I've ever used! years ago Microsoft managed to "rape" the computer world on the pretense that everybody was stupid when it came to computers,dressed up a lame OS and took over the planet. I am a cad manager where I work and I have to support all of my apps on windows boxes. I am in awe at these mac ines, they just slowly die and you have to re-build them. The only saving grace is the fast processors and the massive amount of apps the run on them. All of my servers are sun enterprise (unix) machines and they never die. I have a older SGI machine in m office that runs 24-7 and never dies period...its so scary I re-boot it once a year just to make sure I'm not seeing things. don't give up on Epoc! Linux is coming on strong, people are not

the stupid mass microsoft thought they were, unix desktops are getting cheaper..there is hope. If I was a young buck, which I am not, I would love to get some start up capitol and re-start the development of Epoc devices. everybody at work loves my net ook, especially the apple users. Psion was just ahead of its time, and its so sad to see it fall out of the pda

business. I love this Epoc thread, except the on-going Revo battery issue....microsoft is "stuck on stupid" and some day Epoc OS will come around again. your friend in texas... sc